| CD Baby DIY Musician Podcast |
 June 29,
2009
Ep.65 : Matthew Ebel - Stream your concerts to the world
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| CD Baby Music Podcasts |
 Music Discovery
 Hip Hop
 60's Pop
 Rockabilly
 Top Sellers
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| Super D, worldwide music wholesaler, and CD Baby sign exclusive distribution agreement |
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NOTE to CD Baby clients: If you are already
distributed through a brick and mortar distributor to Super D
and/or go direct with Super D, do not worry, this deal will
NOT affect you. Super D will reject our information if
you are currently in their system or come into their system
through a brick & mortar distributor or via a direct deal.
How this will work: All our titles (with a UPC barcode)
will be available in Super D's database; a retail store will order a
CD, Super D will order from us, we'll ship to Super D and then
Super D will ship to the retail store.
You will still be paid the full amount that you get paid
when you sell a CD on CD Baby (i.e. if you're selling a CD on CD
Baby for $12.00, CD Baby pays you $8.00 per sale. You'll still
get that $8.00 if Super D buys it and sells it to a record store).
Now your fans should be able to walk into any store that deals
with Super D and order your album! This will be effective either
May or June 2006.
If you don't have a UPC, we sell them for $20.00 each. Log in at
https://members.cdbaby.com and then go to the "members
tools" tab at the top and then select "UPC barcode"... you do not
need to physically have the UPC barcode on the CD, we'll do that
for you. There was no way around this, Super D only wants
titles with UPCs as that is how they track stuff in their system.
Also, if you want to design a one-sheet to pass out to retailers
in hopes they will purchase your CD from Super D or so they can
be more aware of it, then you can use this as your distributed by
contact information:
Super D/Phantom Distribution
Mark Grindle
National Sales Manager
17822 "A" Gillette Ave.
Irvine, CA 92614
Phone: 949-255-5202
Fax: 866-666-5162
cdbaby@sdcd.com
However, PLEASE DO NOT contact Super D if you are
not a retailer. If you are a CD Baby artist, please direct any
Super D questions to CD Baby Customer Service at
cdbaby@cdbaby.com.
Go here to make order request cards for your fans:
http://cdbaby.net/CD_Baby_InfoCard.pdf
Thanks!
Here is the official press release:
Worldwide Music Wholesaler, Super D, signs exclusive
distribution agreement with CD Baby to distribute to retailers
worldwide.
Super D, a Worldwide Music Wholesaler has signed an exclusive
distribution agreement with internet retailer CD Baby to
distribute CD Baby’s 160,000 unique titles of independent
artists’ music to retailers worldwide. CD Baby has over 128,000
artists who have consigned their CDs to be sold on CD Baby and
now these independent artists have worldwide distribution to
retailers through Super D. CD Baby gave the independent artists
an opportunity to offer and sell their product online and now the
artists have a distribution channel to retailers worldwide.
What does this mean to the individual artists?
CD Baby created an internet marketplace for an artist to market
and sell their CDs and now the artist has immediate worldwide
distribution to retailers. Super D sells to over 1,300 retailers on
a weekly basis and now artists can efficiently work with their
local retailers with easy access to the product. “This is a
fantastic opportunity for the independent artist to instantly get
worldwide distribution,” said Jeff Walker, President of Super D,
“CD Baby and Super D have joined up to provide a complete
worldwide solution for the independent artist.”
Over the past eight years CD Baby has created the largest
database and selection of independent artists’ music in the
world. The selection continues to expand at an unbelievable
pace of over 3,000 titles per month. With its total commitment
to supporting the independent artist and its exceptional
technology CD Baby has become a savior to the independent
artists.
“We’ve always wanted to offer a brick and mortar solution to our
clients,” says CD Baby’s vice president of marketing and
business relations, Alex Steininger, “because we feel many will
do well in traditional record stores. But, we won’t do a deal
unless its right for the artists, and our deal with Super D opens
many doors for the independent artists we represent, so we felt
it would benefit them, and that Super D was a perfect fit”.
Over the past several years Super D has been creating the only
Worldwide One Stop that is committed to Superior Service,
Selection, and Technology. The addition of 160,000 CD Baby
titles to Super D’s current in stock selection of 215,899 titles
provides brick and mortar and internet retailers worldwide with
the best possible selection available and a true Worldwide One
Stop. Super D’s selection represents product from 24 countries
worldwide.
The combination of CD Baby and Super D creates a total solution
for the independent artist for true worldwide distribution.
About CD Baby:
CD Baby sells and distributes music online for independent
artists and labels. Founder and musician Derek Sivers was
selling his own CD online in 1997, and he eventually asked a few
friends if they'd like to sell their CDs there, too. Friends told
friends and now over 128,000 artists sell their music through
CD Baby. CD Baby has sold over two million CDs to customers
worldwide, and paid over $25 million dollars to musicians. CD
Baby's Digital Distribution program has deals with all major
digital outlets such as Apple iTunes, Verizon Wireless’ V CAST
MUSIC, MSN Music, Rhapsody, Napster, and Sony Connect,
making CD Baby one of the leading digital distributors. For
more information visit www.cdbaby.com. More information
about CD baby is available at http://cdbaby.com and
http://cdbaby.net
About Super D:
Founded in 1990 as an independent music store, CD Listening
Bar, Inc. is a privately held employee owned California
corporation located in Irvine, California. Super D currently has
the largest worldwide selection of CD’s & DVD’s from 24
countries in the world and distributes them to independent
music retailers, chain music retailers, internet retailers,
international retailers and special market retailers worldwide.
More information about Super D is available at
http://sdcd.com
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| by
on Wednesday May 03 2006 @ 01:07PM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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Excellent Job Guys...
I was working on something with another distributor to push music nationally. I will, however, stay the course. My patience continue to payoff for Qizaar Records and the artists we service.
Independent for Life... Thank You CD Baby.
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GREAT NEWS FOR THE CATZ IN THE HATZ AND SO MANY OTHERS LIKRE US WHO WORK THE WEEKENDS BUT STILL MUST KEEP OUR DAY JOBS..YOU ARE A BLESSING TO THE WORKING CLASS UN-SIGNED CLUB MUSICIAN.
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Fantastic CDBABY! a speical thank you to you all ! At this moment after reading this new information ,all I can say is WoW ! WoW! WoW! and thank you again walter goulet
ps. you all make dreams happen for us musians at CDBABY
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I still cant' believe this announcement...this is "the big one"
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Derek: there's lots of questions in this deal. What of returns? What of list price? You're not implying here that the retail price stays the same, and the artist still retains all but $4.00 of the sale are you? If a CDBaby title is $12, where's the split between the retailer, Super D, CDBaby, and the artist? What of those cds priced at $10 on CDBaby? Are they to still sell for $10 at retail, with a $4 artist contribution? Pls 'splain!?
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There are no returns! That's the beauty of this deal. Once Super D buys it from us, they are shipping it one-way to stores.
The list price will be a few dollars higher, and will be dependent on the stores, etc. pricing structure. But, a safe assumption is... look at your price on Tower.com and that is about what it will retail in record stores for, if not a dollar or two cheaper.
As for the money, the artist still gets their same price. For a $10.00 CD, the artist still gets their $6.00.
Take care,
Alex
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is there a list of retailers that can get product from Super D?
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is there a list of retailers that can get product from Super D?
They're one of the two largest one stops in the world, AEC (Alliance Entertainment Corp) being the other. Retailers anywhere order from one of these two one-stops. The list is rediculously long.
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would that include a chain like FYE? someone say in South Florida could order my cd at FYE and Super D would get it to them from CDBaby?
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derek this is a momentous! my son has a ton of teenage fans without credit cards
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There are no returns! That's the beauty of this deal. Once Super D buys it from us, they are shipping it one-way to stores.
Wow ... that's not the same deal the rest of us brick & mortar guys have. It's too bad you'd undercut the market this way. When retail buys from Super D, and Super D places an order with us, it's with the express knowledge that the retailer can return unsold product via Super D. It's not a direct fulfillment arrangement. Its also one of the reasons why distributors have had to directly either own the product they were distributing, or the artist had to understand what a holdback against inventory was all about.
You're going to put a lot of people out of business with this arrangement, because simply put, we cannot compete with this arrangement. This is a sad thing for many of us smaller independent distributors, who have already been fighting your commission / royalty schedule.
I am deeply saddened by this news, not happy .. although I am happy for the artists you are selling. I expect I'll lose a good share of my business I had retained because this was the one area I could compete with you all in. Now, I've lost even that competetive edge.
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after a customer orders a cd from retail, how long before the transaction shows up in our CDbaby account? Similar to Tower.com? or weeks and months?
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As always, we notify you as soon as it is shipped. Think of this like any other order, except instead of a person buying your CD, it's a store buying your CD. The way we have it set up here, it's really no different.
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great news Derek!... thanks!
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Thank you Derek for this wonderful news!
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Derek,
You're takin' over the world in your pursuit of happiness! Rock On Bro . . .
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Derek, finally someone is standing up for the independent artist, thank you so much, I don't have a relative in the industry but we have Derek Sivers looking out for us.
You guys are a blessing, music is being returned to the artist.
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| by b
on Tuesday April 18 2006 @ 09:25AM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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So can we get an idea of what stores they service? Best Buy, Wherehouse, Virgin, Tower, Target, Wal-Mart, Borders etc.?
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Please see someone else's reply to the same question, above. It's pretty much every store. Thousands of stores. I'm sure someday we could probably get the entire massive list, but we don't have it yet.
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| by b
on Tuesday April 18 2006 @ 02:16PM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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I don't care what some else says - especially when he's slamming you & Super D. How do I know that this F'n guy knows what the hell he's talking about? I checked out the SDCD website - no info on retailers - I just want to know officially - from CD Baby staff - do they cover all the major stores????????
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Hey B -
His answer was correct, the list is HUGE and we don't have one
yet. They work with huge stores and little stores. Thousands of
them.
- Lindsey
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I just read about the deal with Super D and I am really happy and excited about where this could lead all of us.
I have a question, though.
Can you tell me what I can do to to help myself with this new deal?
Should I contact stores in the areas where I have press/airplay and let them know about Super D?
Thanks,
Richy Kicklighter
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Ricky-
You bring up a very GREAT question, and one I would have addressed in the initial post if I thought about talking about it, but I didn't. So, I want to start off by saying "Thank you" for bringing this up!
Yes, the idea that thousands of record stores can order your record, from the hip mom&pop indie stores in each market (C.I.M.S. stores... http://www.cimsmusic.com - the Coalition of Indepedent Music Stores and A.I.M.S. stores... http://www.thealliancerocks.com - The Alliance of Independent Media Stores) to Wal-Mart and Best Buy is quite inticing.
However, you can take it one step further, show the stores that you have something going on in their market to warrant them stocking your product in their stores.
Whether it is press or radio play in a market, or tour dates, you can call up these stores and/or email them (Google is great for finding email addreses and record stores), talk to the buyer, and tell them:
1) I have these upcoming dates in your market
2) Here is the press I received in your market
3) These radio stations in your market are playing my music
And convince them to stock it.
Once they ask how they can buy it? You ask, "Do you deal with the one-stop Super D?" When they say yes, tell them they can order from Super D.
Take care,
Alex
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what about e-tailers like Amazon.com does Super D distribute to them, or would that be a conflict of interest for Cdbaby.com?
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Super D does indeed handle online retailers such as Amazon, etc. And, no, it's not a conflict of interests. We want to HELP musicians, not hinder them.
So, yes, online retailers that aren't being supplied by brick & mortar distributors will list your titles via Super D, from the CD Baby deal.
Alex
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As always, we notify you as soon as it is shipped. Think of this like any other order, except instead of a person buying your CD, it's a store buying your CD. The way we have it set up here, it's really no different.
Any store that buys inventory from Super D has the right to return any unsold merchandise, at ANY time. If I'm wrong, please quote the chapter and verse of the agreement that says so. Until then, as someone who has done business with one-stops, this hype is unbelievable, even if it does come from Derek. God knows, I love you Derek, and I have championed your cause since you came online, but I'm not buying it this time. Sorry.
And, if you DID get preferential treatment, then a hell of a lot of distributors in this country are gonna be pissed as hell that you did, and they didn't. This just smacks of preferential treatment of a company big enough dwarf the competition.
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i'm sorry but dealing with independent distributors has -not- been a pleasant experience for me in the past. if you are upset that CDBaby is breaking new ground on behalf of artists (who are accustomed to getting the shaft) then you are no friend.
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i'm sorry but dealing with independent distributors has -not- been a pleasant experience for me in the past. if you are upset that CDBaby is breaking new ground on behalf of artists (who are accustomed to getting the shaft) then you are no friend.
This is NOT my concern. My concern is solely for the documented truth of this deal. I have worked in retail and wholesale music distribution since 1973, and still do so today. I know that any retailer has a 100% return policy against unsold merchandise that is purchased from an artist one-stop such as Super D and AEC. I am also an independent musician.
If in fact, Derek has somehow circumvented this traditional arrangement, it puts the entire industry in a precarious position. Retailers (and I know MANY including CIMS store owners) retain the right to return any product they purchase for full credit against new material.
Don't believe me? Start calling retailers.
IF retailers don't retain the right to return product, they have no incentive to purchase it to begin with.
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Maybe in this case, Super D is taking the risk?
I'm not sure.
All I know is that the CDs only leave our warehouse if it's a paid sale. We made it clear to Super D that we pay our artists just a few DAYS after the sale, so by design we can not accept returns. They were OK with that.
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with physical media sales down almost 25% since 2000 I'd say the industry is -already- in a precarious position....but in my opinion what CDBaby is doing is exactly what's needed.
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We're talking about CDs ordered at the store mainly. If they're
ordered by someone who knows what they're ordering the chance
of returns is slim to none. In most case the store will not be
ordering in the hopes of selling, they will only order the indie CD
from Super D if a customer places an order for it.
In the case of a band gaining exposure in a certain locale and
soliciting stores to stock the CD via Super D and CDBaby... the
stores can give it a shot and stock a real low quanity, if the demand
is there they order some more. I don't think the brick and mortar
store will end up sitting on overstocked indie titles.
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yeah, i was pretty upset when my typewriter business went under thanks to PCs! I can't sell any typewriters! I squandered my entire fortune to keep my business afloat, and now I am dirt poor. I am so upset with Microsoft, Dell, and Apple!
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Maybe in this case, Super D is taking the risk?
I'm not sure.
All I know is that the CDs only leave our warehouse if it's a paid sale. We made it clear to Super D that we pay our artists just a few DAYS after the sale, so by design we can not accept returns. They were OK with that.
You're not sure??! Geeze Derek ... that sure doesn't sound like you, to not be sure. A paid sale is not a paid sale is not a paid sale when it comes to retailers and one-stops.
Please go back, read the fine print and seek clarification. Retailers buy cds from distributors all the time. They retain the right to return for full credit to the distributor. You are now the defacto distributor. In my professional experience, it does not add up to reason that Super D would take the financial risk associated with returns. They are not set up that way (unless they are doing something new that we all haven't been apprised of).
You not being sure does not make me feel assured that you know what you're doing in this case.
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No Stranger To Super D-
Hey! Thanks for coming by. You've made this thread quite an active one. It always makes me happy when people are communicating on the message board and speaking openly about music and ideas. So, thanks once again.
As for Super D and Derek, I am the one handling the deal and haven't had time to fill Derek in on all the details (he is off programming most of the time, making CD Baby better and better) while others, like myself, handle the business over here.
Indeed, there are no returns on this deal, as I have stated. Once paid for by Super D, Super D can't return them to us.
Of course, as you noted above, Super D is not going to take the risk on this. That's why, much like vinyl, they're shipping these CDs ONE WAY. So, retailers will be advised before ordering that the order is ONE WAY and they can not be returned.
There are definitely no returns, and everything is one way. You go to a store, you pay the store, you special order it. They order it from Super D, Super D orders it from us. We ship to Super D, Super D ships to the store. The store gives the CD to the customer.
However, if there is enough interest in a product, the store may choose to order one/some - again, one way - and take a chance.
That idea is not unheard of. You mentioned CIMS stores above. The C.I.M.S.-owned distribution company has, in the past, purchased CDs, one way, to sell at the C.I.M.S. stores (they've done this with The Eels live album, Alexi Murdoch, Michael Andrews... all CD Baby titles (though they did not get them from CD Baby)).
If a store believes in a title/artist/band enough, they'll take the chances, even if it's one or two pieces.
CD Baby's deal with Super D was worked out to benefit the artist, which is reason for doing any deal. Here we are able to offer artists something special, getting into the Super D catalog, and then Super D is able to offer its clients something special, a lot of titles they can't get elsewhere.
Stores have the option to only order, knowing it is one way, when a customer orders it from them. Or, if they want, they can stock their stores with a title.
I hope this clears things up for you. If you have further questions, don't hesitate to call me at 503-255-2569 or email me. It's just my name at CD Baby dot com.
Thanks!
Take care,
Alex
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Alex,
Great work! Is this the way that the long rumored amazon deal is happening, or is that a separate thing?
Brian
www.cdbaby.com/brianrobbins
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Brian-
Thanks :)
As for Amazon, that's a separate deal that's in the bag, waiting on
tech stuff.
Take care,
Alex
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| by da
on Wednesday April 19 2006 @ 05:38PM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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speaking of tech stuff:
it would be really nice if we could set a cdbaby direct price -and- a retail whole sale price per title. This way we could have the flexibility of making things a little more affordable for fans who don't purchase direct at CDBaby.com
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That's already in place. Just use the quantity-discount. It's in your members login area, under EDIT ALBUM INFO --> OPTIONAL
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actually that's not what i meant. What i mean is the ability to set one price for customers who shop directly at CDBaby and another wholesale price for customers who shop say at Tower, or now the Super D retailers. I might be willing to charge a lower wholesale price for external vendors to offset the "markup" that they charge fans.
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Yes, exactly. We'll be using the "QUANTITY DISCOUNT" value you set in your members' login area, for you to tell us what price you want it to be available for to the distributor.
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wow you guys are on the ball...this is good stuff.
I think we'll have more than a couple of good testimonials from this development.
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I see some of my releases on Amazon, so assume this is through SuperD. Its great. My question is whether the 4-6week lead time it shows is true and if this can be shortened...
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To: "b" I don't care what some else says - especially when he's slamming you & Super D
I was slamming neither Super D nor Derek. I happen to deeply respect both Derek and Super D, and there are no less than a few artists here at CDBaby who I represent in one capacity or another. The same holds for Super D. The only exception here is that Super D has cut a deal with Derek that I do not have. And that hurts. It hurts for those who I do business with, and it hurts me. I've been working with and supporting "independent" artists longer than most of folks here have been out of diapers, so I'd appreciate the benefit of the doubt here, please.
To Alex: Thank you deeply for your answer. I hope you understand the precedent this deal sets, and how it will affect those of us who have not had this deal going for us. I guess it's now up to Super D to level the playing field so that we all have the same opportunities for sales.
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Hi NSTSD,
I feel your pain in a little different way. You're right, it hurts
when another company or individual is able to secure a deal that
you can't. But if it's by fair means then it's something you must
overcome (also by fair means).
Think of the relationships that major labels have with radio.
Whatever the reason, they enjoy opportunities with radio that
the indie does not, maybe it's by fair means, maybe it's not.
The best we can hope for is a free-market where the winners of
fair market-competition get what they want. I think that's what
we are seeing with CDbaby and Super D --- two companies that
are able to benefit from one another doing business in ways that
you and Super D cannot. But you and Super D could if you had
the same things to offer as CDbaby.
I'm glad CDbaby can offer us this opportunity, andt at the same
time I hope you are successful at finding new ways to compete
given this unexpected twist.
Good luck NSTSD, you are going to overcome this little hurdle--
hang-in.
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unfortunately, I cannot see a bright side. I am not in a position to compete w/ Derek. I am a small operator, with only a small number of clients. The royalty structure that Derek and Alex have managed to negotiate with iTunes hurt me enough to make a large number of my clients leave me for here, where I could not get the same deal. Now, this deal really makes it nearly impossible for me to compete in an arena where I believed I had something to offer. Just as small mom and pops could not compete against Walmart, I can prob'ly no longer compete against CDBaby. What was once the ideal independent company is now no more than the MS/Walmart of the indie music scene.
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Seems to me there should be something an indie distributor can offer that can't be had via the Super D/CD Baby relationship.
So you can't compete on price and you must accept returns. Can you compete with better customer service? Better relationships? Can I get you on the phone?
What about quality of product? Are your acts niche or "lifestyle" acts? Do you only serve record shops or can you branch out into non-traditional outlets? Can you assist artists with marketing so their product actually sells and stays sold?
How do CIMS and IODA stay competitive?
I'm just thinking aloud because I know nada about distribution. But it seems to me that if distribution houses only exist to get records into record stores, well, the game is always changing...
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whats happening here is a good thing, there are thousands of artist that would never have a shot at anything if it wasn't for cd baby. The industry for to long has been controled by bankers and business men, now artist have a chance at being heard and bought. We should be talking about how to open the airways to independent artist.NSTSD you can offer a refund on your product which should give you an edge or maybe you can help cd baby and the rest of build this and come up with ideas to make this work, I feel really good about the direction this is heading and this isn't evan close to wall mart. I have been signed to several small labels and evan made it on Japans billboard for a moment and have gotten plenty of airplay but the sales never added up, who knows why, but I know that right now I feel like the door is open for the future and I think its going to get better. cd baby is a good thing and I trust their judgment in this process.
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I think we will see a lot more shakeups in the way the music business is done, and there will certainly be people who get hurt by it. It's happened in other industries and distributors are always in a volatile position. Yes, I suspect that No Stranger To Super D is going to get hurt, and I am sorry to see independent business folk who have shown that kind of initiative (to carve out territory for themselves) lose it, but I suspect that digital distribution is going to make this deal moot anyway. It seems like a questions of time.
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Once again, Thank You Derek And Alex for trying so hard to look out for the Independent Artists.I'm very glad to be a part of the CD BABY Family.
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yes dereck thank you scense i have become a member of the cd baby family i am at great peace with my music career thank you so much.
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To: No Stranger To Super D
I don't really get it - for the stores YOU will be the preferred
distributor for your products, since you DO accept returns. Where's
the problem?
Buying CDBaby CDs through Super-D will be a riskier venture for a
small store. That's all!
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Jorge : you're exactly right. We're still going to make a point of telling artists the downside of this plan, and that if they are serious about physical retail distribution they would still be better off going with a real distributor.
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To: Alex/Derek - Worldwide distribution???
The press release seems to imply that Super-D has a worldwide
presence, but I think it's simply the opposite: they buy
from "24 countries" (nowhere on their site are these countries
listed) and sell mainly to the US market. Is that correct?
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It's their press release, not ours. I'm not sure why that word "worldwide" is repeated like 20 times.
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Jorge-
Super D and their sister company Phantom Distribution do sell to
accounts worldwide. They do a lot of importing, but a lot of
exporting, too.
Take care,
Alex
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This is a great way to make the artist's music available to those fans that are not big on internet buying. I was disappointed by the deal with Best Buy. It did not add any extra availablity that I noticed. But this deal with Super D sounds as promising as the Digital Distribution.
My Question is, when a order comes thru Super D will we get any info on what store its going to. The reason I ask is if the Artist knows where his/her CD is being sold. They can see if the store will let them put up a poster or drop flyers to let fans know the CD is being sold at this location.
Ya boy AMC!
www.cdbaby.com/sabuerecords2
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>> when a order comes thru Super D will we get any info on what store its going to
Probably not.
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| by Ed
on Wednesday April 19 2006 @ 06:50AM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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Maybe I'm missing something here, but why would an individual choose the circuitous and time-consuming route of ordering a CD through a retail establishment who has to order it through Super D who has to order it through CD Baby, when that person could save time and money just by ordering it directly through CD Baby? The only consumer I can imagine this appealing to is someone without a computer and credit card. Do such consumers still exist?
No Stranger: Hasn't anyone told you that life isn't fair, and that the superior competitor wins? That's life in a free market. Adapt or perish.
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Do such consumers still exist?
Yes, without a doubt. Personally, I've sold far, far more physical CDs in person than through CD Baby or any online outlet.
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>> why would an individual choose the circuitous and time-consuming route of ordering a CD through a retail establishment who has to order it through Super D who has to order it through CD Baby, when that person could save time and money just by ordering it directly through CD Baby?
Most won't.
Some will.
Neither Super D nor CD Baby are expecting to make millions doing this. But if it will help some people sell some CDs, it's worth doing.
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Ed-
The retailer doesn't know where Super D is getting the product.
It's no different than someone ordering a CD from Super D that
Super D has to get a CD from Universal Distribution on (though,
more than likely, they'll probably already have it in their
warehouse). But, the end result is, the retailer, nor the customer
know the CD is coming from CD Baby. They just know it's in the
retailer's system and they can order it, so if they want it, they do
so.
Alex
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If any of you think this relationship with Super D is going to put your product in a retail store near you, you're dreaming. What this will do is make it so that retailers can special order the title thru Super D, WHEN a need exists.
In 2005, of the over 60,000 titles made AVAILABLE to retail, roughly 49,000 were made AVAILABLE by independent labels and distributors. I use the term "available" in caps to show that while these titles were made available to retail stores, retail stores did not stock that many titles.
Retail does not stock simply because a piece of product is available to be bought and stocked. There has to be a significant reason for them to stock the title. Approximately 618 million units were sold in 2005. Of those, only 20%, approx 123 million, were from independents. So, about 80% of available titles were independent, accounting for about 20% of all sales.
There also seems to be a misperception of what distributors do. I run into this all time. Distributors do not PLACE your product in stores. Stores buy their product from distributors when and where there is a need to do so. Distributors can and often do market their catalogues to retail buyers, but with so many titles today, with so many "distributors" and labels out there today, 99% of retail buyers don't even bother to look past those titles with the biggest promotion and marketing budgets attached to them.
In a conversation with a national retail buyer last year, I was asked directly what the marketing and promotion budgets were for each title I was pitching. In the independent artist world, these budgets are up to the artist to fund.
If you want retail to CONSIDER buying a COUPLE of pieces, you'd better have your promotion, marketing, and publicity program well established, and you'd better be visible in that market area, in one way or another. If your label, and/or the artist/band, has a history of sales that can be easily documented, some retailers are more likely to be willing to consider buying, as opposed to consigning your product.
99% of us are placing product in stores on consignment, when and where we can. Retailers do not and will not take the risk otherwise. This relationship with Super D does not and will not change that model, regardless of the appearance of the deal.
How do CIMS and IODA stay competitive?
CIMS is the Coalition of Independent Music Stores. They are a consortium of independent retailers nationally. They occasionally cut exclusive deals with certain acts nationally. They did that with My Morning Jacket last year, where the only place you could purchase one of MMJ's titles was thru those stores. They do a lot of very creative things as a retail organization. But, each store is independently owned and operated.
IODA stands for Independent Online Distribution Alliance, Inc. They are a digital aggregator for independent labels and distributors. Where you all give up 9% to CDBaby for digital distro, IODA charges 15% to the label/distributor, who then charges (historically) 15% of the remainder to the artist account. Yes, they have their hands in a few outlets that CDBaby does not, but how much longer before Alex and Derek tap into those areas?
I suspect that digital distribution is going to make this deal moot anyway. It seems like a questions of time.
The truth is, digital is costing us all money ... not making us money, unless you're in the aggregation side of things, such as CDBaby or IODA ... aggregation is the key; sales as far as the seller, label, and artist is concerned is a losing proposition, and stands to be that way as the amount of product increases in the pipeline.
As we've noticed from retail sales this past year, as the amount of total product increases, the amount of total sales decreases. As the amount of total product increases, the cost of marketing and promotion increases. As the amount of product increases, so too does the amount of "Free" product.
Also, it's estimated that the physical product lifespan is somewhere around seven to ten years from now. Increases in the price of crude oil, from which optical polycarbonate (used to make cds) is made, is sure to have an effect on the cost of producing physical product, in the next year or two at most. Newly emerging online technologies will enhance our ability to market our product more cost effectively, but the flip-side is that as the amout of product increases, so does its relative economic value in the marketplace. We'll increasingly spend more to make less in order to survive ... that's the catch-22.
My Question is, when a order comes thru Super D will we get any info on what store its going to. The reason I ask is if the Artist knows where his/her CD is being sold. They can see if the store will let them put up a poster or drop flyers to let fans know the CD is being sold at this location.
This should be an interesting answer, since in my years of experience with them, they hold such things as being non-disclosurable proprietary information. In fact, I was just asking for that information three months ago, and it was refused on those grounds.
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NStSD : great post. Right on. I totally agree with all your points.
It's kinda funny, actually: I've been writing up the text describing this deal to our artists and a lot of what I've already written is very similar to your post, just now.
This press release that Super D put out is THEIR announcement, not ours. When I have an official page on cdbaby.net describing this deal, and announce it to all of our artists, you'll see that we clearly warn people what this does NOT mean. I'm not into over-hyping people and promising them the moon. The rest of the music industry does that too much.
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| by D
on Wednesday April 19 2006 @ 05:06PM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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Okay, this is where I have a problem about what "NStSD" is saying. Digital Distribution may hurt indie distributors and maybe labels, but how is it hurting the artist? The bottom line is that the money I make off of sales goes directly to my bank account, so I'm not seeing how this hurts me as an artist.
The way I see this whole thing, CDbaby is taking 9% and I'm keeping the rest. Last time I checked, the old business model was based on the the label getting 90% and the artist getting 10% and lower. As an artist, I'm well aware of the need to keep pressing up cd's, but I'm projecting that I won't have to sell as many cd's in the future due to digital distribution. So the money that I as an artist would sink into manufacturing could be transferred to promo dollars to help get the word out on my product.
Now , will there be more competition for me? Of course, but for some reason, I'm not worried about that aspect so much.
I see a shift in the spending areas, but I don't see a loss necessarily. Also, this deal is an issue of availability. I expect for my cd to be available in the system, which is all I wanted in the first place. For a good while, I pondered over artist1stop.com (where you have to pay $200 to be enterered "in the system"). I was disgusted by companies like the Orchard because they did not live up to what they could have been. At least now, I can tell my customers that cd is available at Best Buy and Circuit City, Virgin Megastore and Borders. And for those folks that are still used to going to the store rather than downloading (which they still exist, especially with the older generations) they will have access through that means.
I'm with Derek and highly respect what he is doing.
It would be unrealisitic for cdbaby artists to jump for joy in the expectation that they will now finally get their product in all the stores. But this is a victory for the artist who wants his music available across the globe.
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At least now, I can tell my customers that cd is available at Best Buy and Circuit City, Virgin Megastore and Borders.
Be very careful here. This deal does NOT mean that your cd will be available at those stores, nor does it mean people can order it from those stores. Some stores don't use either AEC or Super D. Ask the stores you're interested in pursuing what one-stop they order from. Then tell your fans in any area that they can ORDER your cd by going to those stores, but that the stores are NOT likely to have your cd in stock when they get there.
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| by D
on Thursday April 20 2006 @ 09:00AM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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okay understood, but still my question is, how does this hurt me as an artist?
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| by da
on Wednesday April 19 2006 @ 05:35PM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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not looking to stock product here, looking for a way to sell product to local teenagers without credit card AND get soundscan tracking. This deal sounds perfect to get us started. If things do well, we can consider stepping up to more robust distribution.
I imagine the reason why Super D won't divulge the origin of the sales is to prevent a phenomenon where they lose access/commission from the best selling retail locations for particular titles.
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No Stranger: Hasn't anyone told you that life isn't fair, and that the superior competitor wins? That's life in a free market. Adapt or perish.
Oh hell, I'm not going anywhere. I'm too old now for that. This is all I've ever really known. It's more that Alex has cut a deal that up to now wasn't possible ... and that changes the paradigm we've been used to.
I'll adapt. I always have.
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| by
on Wednesday April 19 2006 @ 07:50AM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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Hi NSTSD,
Great post man. That should be a wake-up call to everyone. This business of selling music is getting to be like trying to sell a rock. Sure, it can be done; but it's getting alot tougher.
I am having to adapt my strategy to survive in the business just like you NSTSD. I can't sell my music, not because it's not good. Hell, I think it's great. The main reason is because of the competition. Every kid in his bedroom can cut a CD and get in the pipeline. That's great for him, and I am glad he can do it, and I can do it. But neither one of us has much of a chance of selling that CD except to our closest relatives.
That's why one must adapt. Make your own way in your own way. Live gigs my friends. There is much less competition in that arena. But then again it's tough there too. In this town I am in people from the local college music department play for free at the places I used to be able to play for money.
But I am innovative, I will survive. Long live talent my friends.
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OK ! yesh! I"m falling more and more in love with cdbaby.com every day ! :) (er.. not in a mushy sort of way - just a respectful way) thanks for doing this. . It sounds like a good deal.. is there a place I can get a list of stores Super D sells to? This is a new name to me (i only heard of baker and taylor) and so would like to be able to write up a press release blurb in my fan newsletter to let folks know where to go to ....
thanks
regards
BArb
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No, you can not get a list of stores Super D sells to, and no Super D will not provide specific account information on who buys your CD. The guy who made the point of why would someone go to a store, order it, Super D orders it from CDbaby, CDbaby ships to Super D, and Super D ships to the store, was right on the money. If I'm a normal artist at CDbaby I would count on this additional program adding 0-2 sales to my account every year, and nothing more. So of you guys here really live in la la land.
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I agree this doesn't mean that everyone is going to automatically start selling a lot more.
But it helps a bit, and so it was worth doing.
Especially for touring artists, I think it helps a lot to contact the store nearest the venue you'll be playing, beforehand, and let them know it's available, and direct fans from the stage to let them know what store it down they can find it at.
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| by
on Wednesday April 19 2006 @ 06:11PM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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if u can't use this program to your advantage then u might as well hang it up and give everything away for free...u sound tired!
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What about online stores like fye.com, samgoody.com and amazon? Will our products be listed and available at these sites?
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Good Question. The same thing was noticed by us.
The interesting thing was that as you say it was listed as not currently available and now it is available. In fact it is available for less than we have it listed for ourselves on Amazon Marketplace.
You can see the 2 prices here http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000CADD3Y/ref=dp_olp_2/102-8065761-8303366?%5Fencoding=UTF8
Amazon is selling it themselves for $9.49 and our price is $9.99! Interestingly, the price we have it listed for on CD Baby is also $9.99. There is o discount offered since it cost us $4.00 to have the disc made with short run duplication and CD Baby gets another $4.00 that only leaves us with less than $2.00 profit after paying to ship it to CD Baby to stock. So how is Amazon able to sell it for less than us and we still get paid the same???
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Besides, How many folks will buy these CDs without sound clips to listen too? [Of course that may be in the works with the deal being worked out between CD Baby and Amazon?]
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Yeah, I am one of thoae touring artists and that is exactly why I want to know which stores I can let people go to order the Cd ahead of time before I get to that city.. I hate having a ton of broken merch from shipping and luggging around wtih me and it's heavy ..being a soloist as I tour on myu won without anyone goiing wiith me for now....so every little thing I can lighten my load with helps tons! BTW>. does Super D also work with overseas stores?
Did a google search but didn't find much
thansk
regards
BArb
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If you want to get your CD placed in stores, or made available to stores because the big one stops stock at least one piece of every unit in their catalogs, and available to all the online stores, hire a distributor that does that. There's plenty of distributors out there willing to carry independent releases if there's a chance of selling some units. Get yourself a copy of the Musician's Atlas and you will have plenty of companies to contact. You can also contact companies like Super D and Alliance Entertainment directly and ask them for distributor referrals. This program for Super D / CDbaby is a good entry level arrangement to get some feet wet for artists in the CDbaby system that have some sales potential beyond their friends and family. Good luck to everyone involved.
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Derek: Thanks man. I am completely confident you will address the details of how this deal works, and what it does NOT do. I have looked at you as a role model since you began this place and have never really felt cause for alarm til now ... even when you only took a 9% cut of digital which I still don't fully understand from a purely business pov.
TO Barb: Yeah, I am one of thoae touring artists and that is exactly why I want to know which stores I can let people go to order the Cd ahead of time before I get to that city.. I hate having a ton of broken merch from shipping and luggging around with me and it's heavy .. being a soloist as I tour on my own without anyone going with me for now .... so every little thing I can lighten my load with helps tons! BTW>. does Super D also work with overseas stores?
Did a google search but didn't find much
thansk
regards
BArb
Barb ... you are exactly the kind of artist I hope does NOT fall for this. 99% of measurable sales will come as impulse buys at your shows. If you have some radio play in an area you're performing in, prior to your appearance, you may contact those record stores in that town and suggest that they can order a copy or two for stock from Super D. The challenge here is that the local store will want to be able to return those pieces IF they don't sell through.
What this program is good for are those rare occasions when someone walks into a store and wants to order a piece. The store can then go to the Super D catalogue, which will now apparently list the CDBaby catalogue, and order that ONE piece. But, please, unless you are a well promoted and marketed touring artist, or you have reasonably significant radio play in an area, don't think that stores will buy your product for stock, with no return policy. It really just doesn't happen that way in real life.
48.5% of all retail sales = the TOP 100 titles at any given time. If there were 60,000 titles last year, est. 45k in 04, 36k in 03 .. and so forth .. then what is the estimated total number of titles available to retail at any given time?
Know the facts before you leap!
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Quite a thread - it seems to me that this deal might benefit us - it might raise the profile of indie music a bit - but I have to agree with 'no stranger' that (at least for my group) most of our sales will continue to be at our shows. I hope I'm wrong - I hope thousands of stores buy one copy of any of my CDs; but until then, I'm one musician who's gonna lug as many CDs to gigs as I can carry, and try to sell them all by giving the audience a great show.
Love ya Derek - keep doing all you do to give us a boost!
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NSTSD,
I understand your (well-thought out) position, but
I am curious about one point. While I agree that digital sales hurt labels and distributors go, I think the artist might benefit. Now understand I am not talking label artists, but indie artists. I am my publishing company and my label...if I can sell songs without making CDs, even if the price falls and the pipeline fills, I still make more than if I have to make physical product. Obviously you don't see it that way. Can you elaborate?
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Ed: in response to your question, let's make some basic assumptions for the purposes of math.
Assumption #1 -- indie artist recording in decent indie studio, mixing and mastering to commercial grade quality = $60 an hour studio time, $60 an hour mixing time, $150 an hour mastering at top house. Per song cost = avg of $900 a song to produce, if no other costs involved.
Assumption #2 -- artist sells via cdbaby distro program.
Result == at $.637 USD royalty per pd dl from iTunes, artist would have to sell 1413 single dls to break even on song.
Assumption -- the avg artist selling via cdbaby has moved 21 cd units. avg local diy indie artist sells 250 cd units.
Conclusion -- avg indie artist loses money on the recording, promotion, and distribution of song.
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NSTSD please email me a contact: email address or phone number. I would like to talk to you. thanks
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No Stranger to Super D, You got to be joking!
Most of the indie studios I've ever worked with are $25-30/hr. same for mixing.
Now granted I've only worked with studios in Los Angles and Nashville, most of which had major studio/label affiliation, so your studios in Dreamsville my cost more.
All my CDs have been mastered at SONY in LA for $250 flat fee.
Average cost of my 25+ releases, about $200 per song.
Based on FACTS and not your assumptions, re-calculate you formula and see where you are.
The ability to tell fans that they can, most likely, go to their favorite "record store" and order your CD is an invaluable commodity that you cannot even begin to imagine.
GREAT JOB DEREK!
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Oh hell, your old, I'll do it for you.
Using my real world numbers and your "assumptions" the DIY artist alone, selling 250 copies of his 10 song CD at $15 has already shown a profit.
10 songs @ 200ea. = $2000
mastering = $250
Replication(you forgot this expense)per 1000 CDs = $1200.
Total Production cost for 1000 CDs= $3250.
250 sales at $15.ea = $3750. a $500. profit.
But wait, that still leaves 750 CDs to be sold...
And it doesn't include the 21 sold through CDBaby (your assumption)or the digital sales......
I'll let you figure the rest out.
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I think its great we as independant artist are the underdogs in the industry. The ones everyone is hesitant to deal with because you dont have a track record. Its our time now its a new day hate or love underdogs on top. More power to you derek thanks.
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I will say something simple.
Stay away from all of us if possible "No Stranger".
You are a seditionist trying to reprise a point that has nothing to do with the origin of this deal. It is "availability" versus your anti-schematic. If you are not with us then you are not for us as you illustrate. If people don't understand they will call or email one of the two leaders of this venture.
The objective was to achieve opening an outlet for self-published musicians to expand effectively. Like all things on this Earth, it is in the hands of the person utilizing this tool-set to create/allow such expansion/capitalization.
In the meantime, excellent accomplishment CD Baby.
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I think Derek is doing a great job for us independent artists. Any way to get the music out to the world without being supressed is true freedom. Digital distribution is the way to bypass lots of censors, people or obstacles who don't want an unknown to get a break! I feel the internet is truly a God send and Derek is changing the playing field to give us independents a chance to be heard and sell some CD's too in the process.
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Stay away from all of us if possible "No Stranger". You are a seditionist trying to reprise a point that has nothing to do with the origin of this deal.
Sedition: Conduct or language inciting rebellion against the authority of a state. Insurrection; rebellion.
I am an independent artist, and have been since 1969. I am an independent music distributor, wholesaler, and retailer .. and have been since 1973. I am one of you, an anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment artist, seeking his own way in the world. I am a seditionist in the purest sense of the word, and proud of it.
I am also a business person. I speak in the language of dollars, cents, percentages, and profits and losses. I make my living in the business of making, marketing, selling and performing music .. my own and that of others.
I know full well the nature of this deal, and its implications for all of us. I will not back down from protecting my brothers and sisters, and that includes you. Alex should be ashamed for leaving Derek out in the wind the way he has (sry Alex). That press release should not have been made public until Derek had a chance to address his constituency with the details of the deal.
To Stuart: This deal has nothing to do with digital distro .. it's a tangent to the orig topic ... digital distro is a different subject.
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u don't f'ing speak for me.
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c'mon it aint like that. both Alex and Derek are cool in my book.
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"No Stranger to Super D" are you one of the guys from that band "SuperTramp"
Any connection?
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Good morning:
This is where I say goodbye. I said what I came to say. I appreciate deeply the efforts that Derek, Alex and the staff here have put forth. I am sure they know what they're doing, and will continue to address this issue with all the professionalism they have shown over the past several years.
Last night I met with and consulted yet another touring, professional, independent band who asked my opinion of this place. For what it offers, I said, there is no place better. I'm sure you'll be seeing another of my clients being signed up here.
To Confused: I know of Super Tramp, but don't know them, sorry.
You guys who are recording for $200 a song. Good for you. Yes, it can be done ... and in the most recent marketing study of working recording studios in the five state region I live in, the range ran from $30 an hour to $150 an hour, with the "fat" middle weighting in at between $60 and $85 an hour, and the average price per commercial quality song coming in at about $800 on average.
Sorry brother, but this is one area I'm exceedingly well versed in here in the heart of America. Here, I do speak from well researched fact, since I do business with more than just a handful of studios. I also know more than just a few people in Nashville and Los Angeles ;) since you brought those places up.
Like I said. Thank you Alex and Derek for once again bringing a new angle to your growing model of indie sales and distribution. You are the model we all out here have to live up to.
Out ... NStSD
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You know your stuff pardner.
Respectfully,
AAC
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imo, you created a distorted controversy here for self preserving reasons.
The original press release still holds as accurate...and as things have been hashed out here I find that I was not misled in any way. It still stands as a good development for Cdbaby artists.
Maybe there should be a "competitors of cdbaby" forum to air out stuff like this.
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Some of you people are unbelievable. Someone comes on here and makes valid points and most of you just don't get it. Good luck on your elementary school playground.
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there are different ways to make a point, with differing responses :)
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don't get what!! that this is good announcement for artists and some middle man comes in here and vomits all over it!!!!
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In my experience, the main difference between Derek and the
typical music retailer, was that Derek paid the artist. Thus, all
the deals that enhance the possibility of more sales will find
approval by the unsigned artists.
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...that's a major difference, being paid. I love selling records online to places where I probably won't play until who knows when, as touring isn't really my very favorite thing.. and frankly I don't like selling records at shows, it makes me feel like a used car salesman. I would rather the audience buy another drink and support the venue that is having me so they'll want me back and continue to book live music. For everything I need to hire additional personnel for (merch, selling..)it cuts into the income, and I would also like to support the local record stores, so this is fantastic as far as I can tell. All respect to Mr. 1969 but he doesn't speak for me, either, and I've made a few records myself, in more than a few studios myself, for more than a few labels myself, and God knows CDBABY pays better than any label I've ever recorded for. Whatever Derek & Co. do is cool with me, I'm psyched. xxj
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So how does this 'one-sheet' thing work? We just pass them out to retailers or do we contact the manager of the store?
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Cool idea to hype/promo the cd on your newsletters (if you're not against this Super D deal....)
this is what I plan on sending out to my fans LOL! :)
"Busy Schedule? Short on Time?! Not into shopping on line? sick of being bombarded with advertisements trying to get you to buy their stuff when you walk into a store, only to have your kids succumb to those ads and grab everything off the shelf to fill your cart with and drain your wallet and scream when they don't get it? it's overwhleming, I know.... BUt....hey! easy way to get my CD at your local fav music store... saves you TONS of time, money and headaches!
Just go up to the counter and ask to order my CD.
voila! that's it! they'll get it for you and call you when it's in.. No more need to search through tons of cd's and scrape your knuckles on all those plastic jewel cases, or have screaming kids in your cart cause you wont' buy them everything they see..... save time trying to find the one indie artist you are looking for ( like me! :) just go to the counter and they'll find it for you!"
enjoy!
regards
BArb
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| by
on Thursday April 20 2006 @ 01:47PM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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Oh hey! Here's another good one!
"ever find yourself walking into the store for one item and coming out with ten more and then kicking yourself for having spent all your money....ugh!
here's an easy way to not do that again..... walk into your local fav music store, go right up to the counter and ask then to order my CD. voila! Don't look around, don't let yourself get tempted by all those noisy advertisemtnsin the store.... just leave...walk right back out again... they'll call you when the CD is in!...simple way to save the budget! yeah!!!
regards
BArb
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Oh, ok .. one more.. I"m feelign a bit creative today .. :) hee he he
"girlfriedn likes to spend all your money when you walk into a store? here's an easy solution!
walk straight up to the counter.. order my cd and then leave! they;ll call you when it's in and your protected your hard earned cash!"{
(obviously you can tell have had some pretty resentful boyfriends LOL!!! .....just kidding!)
regards
Barb
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OK this is the last one lest I be accused of spam attacking this forum....
Missing your summer lookginf ro cds? Is your ice cold Slurpy melting as you dig through thousands of CDs trying to find mine at the music store?
Stop! simple solution.... go to the counter.. oder my cd, go outside enjoy the summer and your fresh slurpy. They'll call you when my cd arrives.. and you've ot spent your precious summer hours cooped up in some overstocoked CD store. :)
regards
BArb
Ok I'm signing off now... going to write some songs :)
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question,.... from my knowledge of stuff that is stored on the shelves in stores.there is a shelf space fee/stock fee and thus the price of the items gets raised as well... is it less expensive for customers to purchse a cd by ordering it? or will the retailer raise the price to match those of other cds in the store? just looking for other cool little things to use for hyping this..
thanks
regards
BArb
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Hello all-
I have some more exciting news for you guys.
An artist emailed me today and asked, "Alex, what contact information do I put on my one sheet to let retailers know how to order my record?"
I got thinking and said, "That's a good question! I'll call Super D and see if I should give artists who want this info the general Super D contact info, or if they have one person they want me to use as the contact".
Low and behold, Super D gave us an actual contact to give out to clients to put on their one sheets, if they wanted to distribute it to retailers.
So, I edited my original post (above) and included the contact information. However, PLEASE do not contact Super D direclty. Only use the information to provide to retailers to contact Super D to order your CD. Otherwise, contact me (Alex at CD Baby) with any Super D questions.
For those that are unfamiliar with what a one sheet is, a one sheet is one sheet of paper that includes selling points of a record, a sales description, artist name, album tile, UPC #, release date, catalog #, cost, track listing, a picture of the album, and contact/ordering information.
You pass these out to retailers, and if they feel inclined, they'll order it.
Any questions, just ask me.
Thanks.
Alex
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thank you, that was really useful:-)
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| by
on Thursday April 20 2006 @ 09:44PM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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So, how much a CD that's $10 at CD Baby would cost at a retail store?
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That's up to the retailer.
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| by
on Saturday April 22 2006 @ 01:06AM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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Sure, but could you give us an intelligent guess? $19?
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Your guess is as good as mine.
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This is great news. How far are we away from a made-to-order CD
service for us digital only labels? It is no longer cost efficient to
have to ship the CDs twice...(once to you, once to the consumer).
Thanks for all you do!
Robert
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NSTSD
Sorry that the discussion here has degenerated into such a pile of manure. You were raising some intelligent and interesting (to me) questions. I would like to have been able to pursue it, but those posters reduced it to such an infantile level that I don't blame you for bailing. I'd like to discuss it further, but clearly you'd have to email me.
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| by
on Friday April 21 2006 @ 06:39PM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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he was posting polished manure too bad you couldn't smell the difference
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i'm shocked at how ignorant people are about the sales/retail end of the music business. i guess i take for granted the knowledge i have of this area.
this deal with super-d/phantom is amazing. people it basically means that your cd has legitimate distro sans the marketing and promotion. just keep in mind that soliciting buyers to carry product and getting items added to retailers databases is a different story. also, with all these big-box retailers, the buying process is centralized... so its still difficult.
but trust me, this is big
i cant beleive what CDBABY has accomplished... this is amazing!
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Great News! - Derek I run websites ect for Muso's here in Bristol, England & encourage them all to check you out - Carmina, Jim Reynolds & Cindy Stratton have and this news really puts the cherry on the cake - Cheers, All Best - Ade
www.carmina.co.uk
www.cindystratton.com
www.jimreynoldsmusic.co.uk
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I'm thinking along the same line as barb, in that it's just simply one more way I can promote the purchase of my CD. There could be various reasons a person would order through a B-n-M store and this provides us, the indie artist, a way of offering that to those folks.
I too count this as a blessing. There's just no way I could accomplish on my own.
Thank you Alex and Derek!
Michael
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Speaking as an artist, this is a great thing for every indie who:
- has current product
- is touring
- is getting radio airplay
- is getting reviews
Like any new sales opportunity, it will give back in proportion to what you put in.
Thank you, CDBaby, for thinking outside the box. You free the slaves!
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does anyone know sbout kunaki.com and their service
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| by
on Saturday April 22 2006 @ 01:29AM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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My only concern with CD Baby accumulating so much power and influence is what would happen when Derek decides to leave to do something else and a true bottom-line-oriented board of directors takes over? The whole business as is relies on our respect for Derek and confidence in his personal integrity...
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| by D
on Monday April 24 2006 @ 10:06AM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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Derek, how will the Super D deal affect indivdual consigments?
Is the Super D deal non-exclusive?
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> how will the Super D deal affect indivdual consigments?
it won't
> Is the Super D deal non-exclusive?
of course
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| by
on Saturday April 22 2006 @ 06:25AM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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If I sold CD Baby to some company, then I'd have a bunch of money, but my this cool, charming little online record store wouldn't exist anymore and that'd be sad.
You've moved well past this stage my friend. This is no longer just some "charming little record store."
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That's your opinion, not fact. It's all relative. I'm still sitting here in my boxers on a Saturday, typing away. I have no investors, no stockholders. It's just a self-contained small business in Portland, Oregon. It's gotten well-known in some circles, but I still think it's charming and relatively small.
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| by
on Sunday April 30 2006 @ 01:24PM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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LOL... okay :)
You in boxers on a Saturday ... now that's a picture ... you are charming, I'll admit that :)
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Clearly, Derek, the indie scene (with digital stuff included) would
collapse once you decided to change your mind about things.
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QUESTION: "Clearly, Derek, the indie scene (with digital stuff included) would
collapse once you decided to change your mind about things. "
ANSWER: WELL NOT REALLY SINCE THERES MORE DISTRIBUTORS BIGGER THAN CD BABY IN THE USA 'THE ORCHARD WITH OVER 200,000 ARTISTS NOW WORLDWIDE AND ABSOLUTE DISTRIBUTION AN INDIE COMPANY FROM UNIVERSAL.
YOU ALSO GOT PANARTIST AND SEVEN DIGITAL IN EUROPE THAT ARE PRETTY BIG TOTALLING OVER 200,000 RELEASES..
SO MY FRIEND THERES A LOT OF OPTIONS FOR YOU EITHER PHYSICAL OR DIGITAL...
MAYBE CD BABY IS THE MORE CONVENIENT BUT IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT IF IT GOES ITS THE ENED F THE WORLD... I ACTUALLY THINK WOULD BE THE BEGINNING OF SELLING YOUR MUSIC FROM YOUR SITE...
SEE I THINK CD BABY HAS ALREADY CLOGGED WITH WAY TOO MANY ARTISTS...
RESULT: LESS QUALITY AND CORPORATE TARDINESS!!!
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| by
on Tuesday April 25 2006 @ 11:22AM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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be careful of orchard..they screw the artists...they send me a void cheque 6 months after it was signed
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Monito-
Corporate tardiness? If there is a problem, have you tried calling our customer service at 503-595-3000? You can get someone on the phone and they'll gladly help you. No hold music, no wait time... get someone on the phone and they'll help you. That's very uncorporate.
Also, always feel free to contact me if you need anything. I'll gladly help you!
Take care,
Alex
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| by
on Saturday April 22 2006 @ 12:45PM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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did i jus get a record deal...
:)
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| by
on Saturday April 22 2006 @ 06:24PM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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Great deal I am stoked.
Derek, is their a contingency plan if (God Forbid) something ever happened to you?
p.s. please eat right, exercise and do some yoga.
Good on ya mate
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> Derek, is their a contingency plan if something ever happened to you?
Things would run just about the same without me, here.
I'm less involved than you think.
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Great, always great, I am enthusiastic about your job and it is giving me the push to do more and more and better.
Thank you Derek and everybody at CDBABY
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Another nail in the coffin for the record industry (circa 20th century).
I'm loving the 21st century record industry.
This is more motivation to write more/better songs, promote more nationally to radio/Internet stations, and get out there and play!
Between this and the CD Baby DD deal the opportunities are endless. No more excuses for anyone either, all the doors are open.
The starving artist cliche is slowly but surely fading....
Monty
http://www.dimensionzero.com
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Q:--> Is the Super D deal non-exclusive?
Derek:--> of course
Really??? This is not exactly true since Super D does not want duplication, right? So, if one of the artists who sell via CDBaby is already aligned with a distributor who supplies Super D with product, then CDBaby cannot also supply Super D with product. Conversely, if an artist sells to Super D via CDBaby, then they can no longer sell to Super D via another distribution arrangement should they opt into this deal. Isn't this the same as the exclusivity of the DD deal?
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please read the first line of this page
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This deal is mostely just like the Tower deal.
It really isn't some larger item to become flustered over.
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Ok - buried in this thread I saw some mention about distribution to Amazon.com? What's the dealio with that?
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When there's something worth telling, we'll tell it.
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I appreciate that answer...and look forward to when that happens!!
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Have you searched for yourself at Amazon recently? You might be pleasently surprised :)
Cheers
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This is AWESOME!!! I will tell people that they can go to most record stores and special odrer our CD when I dont have one in my bag to sell them for the full 10 bucks. I know SoundScan blah, blah, blah. Really though, some people wont buy on line due to security reasons and this gives them the opportunity to still buy your CD. Mabye I'll post that people can special order our CD from most record stores on our website for those people that frown on online purchasing. I'll even mention that at our live shows for those that dont have the money at the time or dont want to carry the CD around all night. With so many ways to sell your music now through one amazingly giving company...CDBaby aint nothin to f... wit!!!
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Corey-
Good idea! Also, if you don't know about it yet, check out http://www.cdbaby.net/swiper. For those times you play shows and people don't have cash, but have a credit card on them... another way to convince them to buy a CD!
Don't give them a chance to say no :)
Take care,
Alex
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Man I wish there was an RSS feed here :) I can't believe it took me this long to re-check the discussion boards and read this, and then fall out of my chair with the "Oh My Gosh!" coming out of my mouth.
This is Huge! Thanks Alex!!!!
Derik, get that RSS working in your latest changes :)
Cheers
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Thanks Alex (and Derek)I'm being dreaming of the day the CD Baby would be able to offer CDs to record stores.
Cheers,
Justin
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i would like my cd/dvd to retail at no higher than 15.98 slp so can you break this down to how much will ill make through super d
thanks
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Antwann : we will take care of all of this when it's time. What you see above is ONLY a press release by Super D. We have not annonuced anything yet, and when we do a system will be in place to make this easy for everyone. It will be built into your CD Baby members area. Until then this is not launched. This is only a Super D press release.
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Thanx Alex,
I definitly have the swiper and slips for credit card transactions for CD's and other merch. I do need to register my new t-shirts...thanx for reminding me.
Thanx again Alex,
Corey
P.S. My group Naughtones just sold another CD...that makes 17....YYYYEEEAAAAHH BABY!! I MEAN CDBABY!!!!
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Monito-
Our .com has a Paypal link for purchasing our CD but we have sold 0 through that. We've sold 17 on CDBaby since October 05 just from people randomly browsing CDBaby's music. They more than likley would have never found us at naughtones.com so it would most certainly be a grave loss to lose CDBbay.
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Corey-
Congrats. Hopefully, with the Super D deal, we can sell more for you and further help you along.
Take care,
Alex
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Question to Alex,
Will Super-D require CD's be shrinkwrapped? Most, if not all retailers require this as a matter of course, do they not? Wouldnt that mean that every single CD ordered thru CDBABY via Super-D would have to be shrinkwrapped? And how to do this if youve already got tons of CD's already in stock waiting to be shipped??
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>> Will Super-D require CD's be shrinkwrapped?
Not by you, no. We have a shrinkwrapper here and so does Super D.
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cool...but what I would like to do is for my future releaes coordinate release (street) dates so that anyone store can order it in time for it to arrive on the street date without yet making my CDBABY page go live yet.
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Vil Vodka-
Well, Super D won't be sent your info until you go live on CD Baby, and they'll get the info the same day, so if you want to coordinate a release date, time it with going live on CD Baby.
Have a great weekend,
Alex
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I've been reading all the comments in this thread and I think a lot of people miss the main points. An artist has to create his music the best he can and then get it out there so people can hear it. That means promote promote promote! It can be costly but if enough people hear your tunes you'll make sales. It's very competetive so the guys who work hardest and smartest at giging, writing, recording and promoting will be the most successful. Keep learning- there's books out there on everything. Make goals and keep them. If people like your tunes you will be rewarded. Derek has done all he can to give us all the tools we need to fulfill orders. It's our job to play the stuff and get our stuff played by radio stations- Don't focus on the money- just be the best artist you can be!
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A few comments.
1. This deal w/ Super D, based on what has been explained thus far, does not insure that retailers will purchase the cd, unless it is pre-ordered by a customer.
2. Retailers do not purchase cds for inventory without a right of return for product refund (not cash, but product of a different nature).
3. Artists who have never worked in retail buying have no knowledge at all of how the proces works and assume that retailers BUY product for inventory; when the reality is that ALL cds in retail bins are really there on consignment, even though there has been money exchanged between retailers, distributors and labels.
4. It is not the responsibility of Super D or CDbaby to place product or to sell product. Each of these companies are only fulfillment centers for orders made by retail stores, which only fulfill orders made by customers pre-ordering the cd.
5. Retail buyers are bombarded by opportunities to purchase, daily. The fact remains that of the over 65,000 (estimated) titles that will be made available to retail buyers in 2006, retail will buy less than 2% and nearly 50% of sales will be generated from approximately 100 titles.
6. 80% or more of all product in the distribution pipeline today is from independent distributors, labels, and artists; yet only 20% of all sales come from this supply.
7. Where Super D/Phantom is one of the largest one-stops in the world, CDBaby is now the largest indie-artist one-stop in the world.
Freedom is a wonderful thing, and being indepedent is great, until you realize how much independence really costs.
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I’ve read everything here in the last 2 days. So here is my input:
Everyone should be thinking about a marketing plan right now if you haven’t already. The smart indie artist/label will know they need to market their product to get sales (besides sending people to the store). And in relation to all the middle men out there, who cares. More than likely the average customer will not know the path a cd takes to get to the shelf anyway.
Also, if your cd’s are flying off the shelf, I’m sure there will be a way to get the cd’s to sd faster. Like a direct shipment from the manufacturer to sd (not that cdbaby doesn’t do it fast). Save $ on shipping.
----------------------
Sd pays cd baby for 1000 cd's.
Cdbaby orders the project from the source.
The artist or independent label orders 1000 cd’s from their manufacturer and has it shipped directly to sd.
The indie informs cdbaby of the delivery.
Cdbaby confirms delivery with sd.
To this effect it can be possible. Of course that’s up to the big D. Personally, for me, my manufactuer will ship it anywhere I want. So even if shipping directly to sd may not be possible, at least I can bypass myself and save on shipping. Otherwise we pay shipping twice.
I wonder if the cost of shipping will turn out to be an issue for everyone...naaa. Because if you're shipping stuff then you're selling stuff, and that's a good thing.
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As asked several times, and I know none knows of it, but the only problem I foresee is the retail price of that project. As stated, if you sell it for $12 and cdbaby makes $4, you get $8. Knowing this, if sd and the retail stores want to make $3 per sale (I do not know what it is), then the retail price will be $17.99.
This is really the only part of this great deal that I’m unsure of. I would be willing to sell them for less to un-jack the price if it’s too steep in most retail stores. We don't have to make 800%+ profit.
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The return policy: Usually, I’m a good hip shooter so here it goes.
There is a return policy, but only back to sd. SD can always send the product to another store when ordered.
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Again, this is my input. It is not factual information. Only the cdbaby staff has the facts, as far as I can see, Alex and Derek.
These are my thoughts.
Tc
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> the retail price will be $17.99. This is really the only part of this great deal that I’m unsure of. I would be willing to sell them for less to un-jack the price if it’s too steep in most retail stores.
We have something in place already to let you discount your price for the sake of distribution like this, while still leaving it higher for one-at-a-time sales through cdbaby.com
I'll be announcing that in a few days when we announce this whole deal.
> There is a return policy, but only back to SD.
Super D also doesn't want to bother with returns. We talked with them about this, and that's their decision for now. No returns. One-way sales, only.
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currently the discount goes 10%, 20%, 30% any chance you allow for a 15% option?
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ok one more :-)...will the Tower.com transaction inherit this new field?
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on Wednesday May 03 2006 @ 12:33AM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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I would type in Goo goo g joob but I can not find the apostraphe key 1
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Isn't it this simple?
If there is a record shop that orders from Super D your fan - or your mum - can go in order your CD - giving details - pay for it and pick it up when it arrives.
That way no returns because the customer pays first.
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One point:
* If payment has to be made in advance, less people are likely to order the CD. Only the most fanatic listeners will bother. And those usually don't mind buying it online either.
* However, if payment does NOT have to be made in advance, a retired mum (with lots of time to hassle) could go around town and "order" his sons/daughters CD, and then never go back, and that way sales would be made, CD would be made available in stores nationwide (with some effort), and each CD would be paid for by Super D/CD Baby.
I know, this is evil thinking, but the world is evil, so I don't doubt at all that if there are no returns (period), some factotum extraordinaire would actually go ahead and do this, and cash in big time.
Any comments?
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> could go around town and 'order' his sons/daughters CD, and then never go back
I believe you have to pay, in advance, to order.
If not, this is a VERY bad idea and the kind of thing that could kill the entire distribution deal for ALL musicians if too many people were to do this. It screws the music store, bad. It's not good to screw the music store.
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I also believe you have to pay in advance to order, so hopefully this will prevent any nonsense from occuring.
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Derek,
I'm kind of concerned about Mika Pohjola's point. This is a very valid point. This new deal is great in that it will open up new avenues to artists that have been locked out of for years. But I can see the room for abuse of this system, and I really don't want to see this happen. I think that the policy should only allow for stores to accept payment up front, and then the cd be ordered. Otherwise, there will be loopholes that can kill the deal. I personally know a few artists on cdbaby that will pull some shady business if given the chance, and we really don't need that kind of b.s.
Plus, I feel this is how the system should work anyway. I would rather have this kind of deal working for me than to have to deal with returns and debt to a distributor. Sure it's nice to know that your cd's are in Virgin and Best Buy, but you get a sinking feeling when you realize they are flying off of the shelves by way of returns to the distributor.
Personally, I plan on continuing my consignments in my key markets (Atlanta, DC & Chicago) where I do the most marketing, and otherwise using the Super D deal to advertise the fact that my cd is "Available in Stores Everywhere". The fact is that mom & pop's are closing down day by day, and the one's that remain open have to be extremely careful on which product they choose to stock. So while my ego would be stroked to the nth degree if I walked in Best Buy and saw copies of my album stacked up nicely, I realize why it would not make much sense business-wise. I once read in an article on Derek that he started cdbaby as a rebellion against the current distribution system. And through the years, I used to look at cdbaby as a "public access" system of distribution, something that did not really allow you to be distinguished amongst the ranks. But now, I'm a huge cheerleader for cdbaby because I'm finally to a place in my life where I'm not looking to be a part of that b.s. industry model that has screwed artists forever. And truthfully, all it takes is a few big stars to jump on the cdbaby bandwagon and people will be sending their $35 by the drones (sorta how myspace is now). But, until that happens, I'm going to be the biggest cdbaby star I can be, lol.
Whteher artists realize it or not, cdbaby is a good place to be right now. Based on my personal prediction, I think cd's will remain to be a large part of the music market. However, if I had to guess, I would say that by 2010, cd's will acoount for 40-50% of sales and downloads will cover the other half. Niche markets will be stronger, and indie artists will be stronger than ever because by that time, the average indie artist will be way more educated on what it takes to sell records. And this is why I think cdbaby is the place to be for an indie, and I'm willing to bet that somewhere, somebody is looking at the cdbaby business model and trying to start up their own to compete, but cdbaby has the power of positioning and a good reputation. What more can an indie ask for? Cdbaby IS a record deal as fas as I'm concerned, a fair deal where I CAN'T sit back and blame the record company for not promoting me. I CAN get off my behind and take my career into my own hands.
So I say thanks to Derek, Alex and all the folks at cdbaby, I wish I would have thought of the idea myself back in 97.
*Fist In The Air*
Darryl
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agree with this 100%. I don't want too much inventory sitting unsold on shelves either.
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... and if we found out someone was doing this (if many many stores were reporting orders with no sales for a particular artist), then we'd gladly remove that artist completely from CD Baby.
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> ... and if we found out someone was doing this
> (if many many stores were reporting orders with no > sales for a particular artist), then we'd gladly
> remove that artist completely from CD Baby.
That would probably be a good method, and would prevent this kind of scenario from happening to the largest part.
I don't want to have unsold CDs on the shelf either. I remember the 90's when Cadence/North Country used to provide CDs to Tower Records, and that situation was pretty close with many indies and small labels of that time selling absolutely nothing nowhere.
CD Baby has changed it all, and although it's great for all indie artists, it angers some (as also witnessed here), since they didn't invent it first. That business model would have been simple for many distributors who already had the system running, but - as always - new thinking prevails in new times.
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Well, I'm really excited about this and I am going start making the retail one sheets. I am not going to quote a retail or cost price since I am not really sure what it is.
Someone asked why a store would order a CDBABY artist through Super D when they can order it through CDBABY for the same or lower price. The answer is simple. Because if these stores order and get delivered product from Super D on a weekly basis, then they probably want to continue to use the same supplier rather than order from a new one. Its the same reason why I might buy a product for a buck or two more at Walgreens even though Walmart has it cheaper. If Walgreens is my preferred place to shop every week, why make an extra stop to save a buck on one particular item?
And although I dont know all the inner working of distros and one-stops, I imagine that one thing that makes this deal work is CDBABY is housing all the product until the order is made. There is no need for Super D to store anything.
As far as our CDs being in retail stores, I look at it this way. It's really up to us to create teh buzz for the CDs we are selling. So, lets say that some town 150 miles away that you perform at is starting to get a buzz about you. Lets say that buzz gets around to employees and customers of a mom and pop store in that town. When they say "wow, maybe we need to get a CD or two in here from that guy", they can go to their main source first: Super D, and find you...rather than google search your band so they can track you down via email and make arrangements top stock the store. Sounds like a great oppurtunity is being given to us.
Thanks Alex and Derek.
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| by
on Monday May 01 2006 @ 10:03AM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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hey guys,
this is the same deal i had when orchard had super d deal and didnt make any money... you really have to be in demand for stores to order your stuff period!!!
sena
:-)
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as far as i'm concerned this is not about the orchard it's about CDBaby :-)
as has been said many times in many different ways, *you* are the salesperson, not CDBaby...so if u didn't get any sales...well...:-)
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"....you really have to be in demand for stores to order your stuff period!!!"
It's true there won't be a lot of money to be made at this but if you are touring or at local shows and run out of CDs to sell at those shows at least you can tell your fans that they should be able to special order your CDs at any local store. That's what this is all about. One more option available.
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Currently we have CD's for sale at our local, friendly Hastings store. We don't get paid until/unless there's a CD sold. Like CD baby, they only keep a few dollars for each sale. Several local artists do this.
IF (I don't know for sure) their supplier is Super D then the next time we need to re-stock with them, I could ask them to go the Super D route (if that is their supplier) and my CD's would no longer be "on consignment" but rather they'd be "on sale" there as part of their regular stock?
Am I correct in my assumption?
Is it a crime to "buddy-up" to the local CD stores to get these stores to do this? Being in a "medium-size" town it's possible for the stores to be willing to have a couple of CD's from local artits.
Unless the store prefers to continue with the consignment deal of course.
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If you've already got a consignment relationship with a store, you should continue that relationship. It is more beneficial to both the store and you to do things that way.
This distribution deal with Super D is intended to help you get into the places that you CAN'T get into - that's all.
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| by
on Tuesday May 02 2006 @ 06:37AM PDT [ reply | parent ] |
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can fans special order now (its passed May 1st) or is this still being finalized?
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I will announce it the minute it's ready.
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We're still putting finishing touches on our system before making it official and launched. I'm very sorry this press release was confusing and seemed like an announcement that it was ready. Super D put out this press release as soon as the deal was signed, and Alex posted it here as an FYI.
I would have preferred to not mention it at all until it was completely ready for everyone, but in hindsight it was OK that this news leaked out early, because this discussion on this board has given me some good FAQs for my official announcement.
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Never got a chance to say this: Derek & the entire cdbaby crew: JOB WELL DONE. At the end of the day we as artists have a gift and we must share it with the world.
Continued success.
Peace!
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Derek,
As always "Youv'e Outdone Yourself! Thanks for everything. We Love You!
Rona Jean Craddock
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Wow. That is downright bitchin!
Now everyone in the world can check out OH NO NOT STEREO.
Booya.
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I think there should be a list of retailers that Order from Super D. We don't need them all. Maybe just 100, 50, or 10 for that sake.
I'm curious which chains actually order from Super D and I'd like to see some real names. It's a disservice to just tell people that there's too many to list. How about listing just some of them. Thanks. Cdbaby has been doing good work. But I think response to this question is necessary. Who wants to go store to store asking if they order from Super D.
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