| CD Baby DIY Musician Podcast |
 June 29,
2009
Ep.65 : Matthew Ebel - Stream your concerts to the world
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| CD Baby Music Podcasts |
 Music Discovery
 Hip Hop
 60's Pop
 Rockabilly
 Top Sellers
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| CD Baby CD sales chart through 2005 |
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I've always been very open with our numbers. So here's the annual CD Baby CD sales chart through 2005.
click for full-size version
An interesting 2004-to-2005 summary comparison:
2004 CD sales : $7.5M
2005 CD sales: $10.3M
2004 digital sales: $0.76M
2005 digital sales: $3.1M
new CDs added in 2004: 28,285
new CDs added in 2005: 37,798
And you can always see our current numbers halfway down the page at http://cdbaby.com/about
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As always Derek great job.
It,s nice to glance at this page from time to time
to see the progress of cdbaby. Thank You walter goulet
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Yes!
The statistics speak for themselves about CD Baby's exponential growth. With it's many connections with online music distributors and CD stores, such as the recently added "Best Buy", CDBaby has become an unrivaled benchmark and hero in its service for independent musicians. Big up to Derek Sivers and his crew!
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Most interesting...
The chart is exponential.
I would be interested in seeing a projection of digital sales overlayed on CD sales.
I think CDBaby is the bellwether for the music industry's future. At some point...digital music sales will eclipse CD.
A good question for long time CDBaby artists...what is your experience with Digital sales versus CD (CD overall)
What is the rate of digital sales growth versus the rate of CD sales....?
Mind you there are a lot of factors...but in general what are you seeinf?
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I have been with Cd Baby for over a year now. And I'd have to say that by far, I have had more success with digital sales.
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No need to ask one or two people's opinions.
I posted the entire summary of the year:
2005 CD sales: $10.3M
2005 digital sales: $3.1M
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Derek,
3.1M is a big number (relatively) is it time to rename your company ddbaby? :)
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My experience with digital vs. cd sales since signing up with CD Baby a couple of years ago is that I've had considerably more downloads than cds sold...I also think it will be the way things are done in the very near future.
Linda
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My CD sales were very sluggish and then along came digital distribution and I was back in the action. I'm not making big numbers but I like being in the game and following the dynamics. Patricia
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| by
on Thursday February 09 2006 @ 08:55AM PST [ reply | parent ] |
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Man, just look at all those Decembers!
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All those numbers are impressive in terms of the buying habits from the music shoppers on the internet. They clearly reflect an interest in our fine independent artists. But if you were a CEO in your own digital self publishing venture, you'd probably be sinking down into the seat off those retail margins. Especially if you collectively sold your percentage off the retail value of the 2005 industry announcement of 1.1 billion. While maintaing a great degree of optimism for an industry aproximately thirty four months old moving into a toddler's decrepit walking mode,
I'd probably up the performance value of the independent input as i tied the considerations
of subscription internet radio services and bundling tier models where portals give you away
for free on the basic level into our greatest value as the denominator moving onward. As always
Mr. Sivers continues to do an outstanding job.
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Very impressive growth indeed!
CDBaby IS the gold standard for indie music.
Just received another check today and I have to say - I love the digital sales!!!
Jeff Van Devender
JavaMusiK
http://javamusik.com
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Congratulations to Derek and all/ Artists at Cdbaby.
Given these reports has there been any thought to spending more money advertising Cdbaby
in places that target consumers and not musicians?
This indie model clearly is the future.
The major Label system will be gone within 10 years,more likely 5.
{Down over 50 million cd's from last year]
Strategic ads in ,for example,
the NY Times,LATimes to start.
Stating where one can find the best new music.
Or perhaps co-op ads,
where each of the over 100,000 cdbaby artists is encouraged to put up [if they can]a buck or 2 if interested for an advertising fund.
That would pay for a lot of exposure,and potentially make the kind of impact needed to make cdbaby even more visible.
Think of what itunes does for marketing,
even a small fraction of that could bring more
awareness,and more people to accept and constantly check out the cdbaby roster.
Again congratulations,I hope the suggestions are helpful.
Regards
Arthur
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>> any thought to spending more money advertising CD Baby
Yes I've thought about it, and decided I still hate advertising as much as ever.
I don't like ads. If watching TV, I turn the other way rather than watch ads. If reading a magazine, I quickly flip so as not to let ads into my brain. If on the web, I run software so that ads never hit my screen.
Why would I add something I hate into the world?
Also : I've never once met someone who felt that the money they spent advertising earned itself back.
Advertising is not the way to go.
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I agree that advertising may not be worth while, however I think CDBaby web site could be modernized a bit (aesthetically). I know for me the excellence of the iTunes interface makes shopping there a great experience, and the best place to "waste" money. :-)
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Love the suggestion of advertising with artists contributing. I
would be happy to add a few dollars! Sales are about marketing,
with a few strategic placements CD Baby would sky-rocket.
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The way I see it, the $4.00 that CDBaby recieves for their services computes to the marketing budget for selling your CD on CDBaby, and through their affiliated partners. I wouldn't want to pay an additional few bucks for advertising. I used to sell limited editions and paintings for an art publisher. Sometimes we would negotiate publishing agreements with third party investors, and would charge at least 35% as a marketing fee, or budget, to market these limited editions. I may be wrong, but that's how I consider the $4.00 paid to CDBaby for every one of my CD's sold through their efforts and industry contacts. From their sales growth over the past few years I'd have to say that CDBaby really seems to be doing a great job following their own instincts and business perspective. Kudos to CDBaby.
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Derek,
I understand your point. However, I believe that CDbaby is still unknown to some segment of the market. Isnt it fair to 'reinvest' some profits of cdbaby to the exposure of the cdbaby for marketshare of consumers looking for NEW MUSIC? also exposure for artists. Here is an article which might help
"Advertising Can Be More Important Than What You're Selling."
-Michael Neubauer
Now, I'm not saying that you should sacrifice the quality of your products, you shouldn't. What I am saying, is that even though you may have a product or service that people really don't need or want, with some creative advertising you could do very well.
Let me remind you of a man you probably have heard of before. His name is Gary Dahl. What's so special about Mr. Dahl? Simple, he made millions of dollars advertising a product that was free to the world.
Gary Dahl was an advertising man who considered dogs, cats, birds and fish a pain in the neck. They were too messy, too misbeaved and they cost too much money he said. However, he had an idea...
In 1975 Gary Dahl introduced the Pet Rock at a San Francisco gift show. Creatively packaged with a Pet Rock Training Manual that included instructions for making your Pet Rock roll over, play dead and how to house train it. Neiman-Marcus immediately ordered 500.
Gary then put together a press release that showed a picture of him surrounded by boxes of his Pet Rocks. Newsweek did a half-page ad on Gary and his Pet Rock. In less than two months Gary Dahl was shipping 10,000 Pet Rocks a day!
By Christmas, 3/4 of all the daily newspapers in America had run stories on the Pet Rock. As soon as Christmas passed, Mr. Dahl relabeled the Pet Rocks as Valentine's Day gifts for loved ones in need of a low-maintenance pet.
The Pet Rock sold over a million units for $3.95 in 1975 and made Mr. Dahl a very wealthy man. If it wasn't for Gary's genius marketing and advertising skills, the thousands of pet rocks sold would still be sitting in Baja Mexico.
Mr Dahl's is an amazing story of how creative advertising can really take a product to new markets and instantly create a world-wide fad. Talk about get rich quick schemes, there are not many that can compete with that!
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I love the digital sales over cd sales , I have more Cd sales , But look at all of the cds I had to make.
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Great discussion on CD Baby advertising.
I don't see it as CDBaby's responsibility to advertise outside the realm of musicians. The artist should be hitting all their websites (myspace, homepages, etc.) with "BUY MY CD HERE" and a nifty CDBaby logo.
If anything, advertising $$ should be directed towards innovative ways to 'help artists help themselves.'
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I second Nick on advertising.
CD Baby shouldn't waste a dime on advertising. Just build affiliates like it continues to do.
It's up to the artist to advertise their product and CD Baby can use the money for better things.
Besides, the majority of CD Baby artists are on iTunes and iTunes and the iPOD has a GREAT marketing campaign.
One marketing slant I haven't seen Apple take yet is how much they are benifiting the indie artist community and how iTunes is truley the connection to the underground world.
An ad with Apple highlighting the fact that they sell CD Baby artists and support the indie musician (by giving us such a large share) would be nice.
People love Apple because they are not like the corrupt Microsoft. Apple and Indie go hand and hand. They should further that bond! Best Buy is using it as a marketing angle so why not Apple?
Monty
http://www.dimensionzero.com
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very interesting
I have a few questions
What % of CDBaby artists have their music in CDBaby's DD programs?
I'd be interested in seeing,
monthly CD sales vs monthly DD sales
Which artists/songs are your sales leaders in the DD program?
Is it still cover songs?
Is CD Baby contractually prohibited from rolling out it's own DD program?
ande
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This is great! CD Baby is growing in ways I would have never imagined.
Anyone else find the name CD Baby ironic now?
Reminds me of Microsoft.
Not that I would ever insult Derek Sivers comparing him to Bill Gates but I find it funny that two very large companies have a synonym of small in their name.
Monty
http://www.dimensionzero.com
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Not sure why Derek hasn't answered my point on Advertising...
I believe that indie fans NEED to be Aware WHERE to come to get indie cds.
Ignorance may be bliss in cdbaby's part but have to be careful they don't miss a turn similar to msn, yahoo, missed the Google growth. ibm missed the apple growth. cannot be complacent as a company in the online world. just my 2 cents. loyalty is only a click away.
if cdbaby is to prosper and GROW in the future advertising atleast in STRATEGIC locations online or as coop with apple is ESSENTIAL. unless ofcourse cdbaby has reached its potential with its limited staffing resource that growth is contradictory to its vision?
david
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what is an "indie" fan? Better to focus on music fans, now music fans can shop anywhere which makes deals like Tower, Best Buy and (hopefully) Amazon a more effective approach.
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> Not sure why Derek hasn't answered my point on Advertising
I did, above. Same answer applies.
I don't like advertising. I don't believe in advertising. I don't want to advertise.
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CD Baby reminds me a little of another company (which I once worked for) called Whole Foods Market. They don't do much advertising either but have had a big influence on the 'conventional' grocery store industry over the years. I agree that it's up to the musicians to let everyone know where to buy their cds!
Linda
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I believe advertising is important; however, on the other hand, have you ever seen or heard of any advertising from Amazon.Com? I haven't. I think that online retailers can be more subtle with their advertising through strategic partnerships with other successful online businesses.
But, quite frankly, the only brilliant piece of advertising I have seen lately is from EBAY - the "IT" concept. Now, that rocks. What a great branding idea.
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Rosanne,
your statement..........." I believe advertising is important; however, on the other hand, have you ever seen or heard of any advertising from Amazon.Com? "
Did you just wake up from a loooooooong sleep / coma?
have you ever seen any amazon.com banners/buttons via their affiliates, search engines, or coop advertising they do? Advertising is Advertising regardless of their various forms. we are talking about advertising for cdbaby arent' we? so it helps to pull a THRUST of Music fans into the site/portal to generate NEW sales from currently UNTAPPED market who is not aware of cdbaby. surely there is some 'business smart' people on this board?
surely ..anyone? see this ? I know we are musicians but surely...
david
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Do you have to be so rude. That is exactly what I said - online advertising is the way to go.
But television and radio - it is an "iffy business" now and THAT is what I was talking about. Those media outlets - the traditional ones.
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David, I think you need to go back and look at the chart at the top of this thread again.
CD Baby sold over 10 MILLION DOLLARS worth of CDs in 2005 alone, with NO traditional advertising, in an era where places like Sam Goody and Tower Records are struggling and/or filing for bankruptcy.
I'm willing to bet those other companies spent TONS of money on advertising.
By the way, the guy in your Pet Rock story only made 4 million, waaay back in 1975. And according to the article, he relied more on free publicity in the news than advertising. So I don't see how that's relevant at all.
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| by
on Monday February 13 2006 @ 09:15PM PST [ reply | parent ] |
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Hey Rosanne, I understood exactly what you were getting at.
And I agree, the IT concept is very funny and affective. I second
your question to Mr. Hunter, "Do you have to be so rude, Mr.
Hunter?"
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While I completely respect Derek's opinion and stance on advertising,
and also happen to agree for the most part.
I believe strategic and creative advertising can be very helpful,
and also that many people interested in new music and even many musicians I have spoken with know nothing about CDBABY.
I find it especially odd that Derek responds so strongly using the word "hate"
about advertising,
and at the same time runs FULL PAGE AD's in places like,
The Indie Bible,
Musicians Guide to Touring,
and with discmanufacturers,
these places all obviously only target musicians.
The Ads even read "Made A CD"? "We can help you sell it".
These are strategic ads that were used to grow a business.
Now its time to expand.
As the music industry as we know it nears its conclusion,
huge parts of the market are left wide open.
Apple understands this and is likely to take over most of the retail business,through a very strong and creative campaign.
The amount of wide open space CDbaby,and all indies has to grow is enormous.
Cdbaby's site has thousands of visitors every day looking for new music,
why not grow that to Millions.
As I stated previously ,
even co-op ads with we cdbaby artist's
investing gives us enormous power.
I hope this is viewed as constructive and respectful,those are my intentions.
Regards
Arthur
www.arthurnasson.com
www.philistinerecords.com
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For the record, those full-page ads were given to CD Baby, not purchased. Even if I don't like advertising, when someone is offering to do a full-page ad for free, it's silly to say no.
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Way to go, Derek. Right as usual.
My personal experience with conventional print display advertising -- I have the money to experiment, so I did -- is that it is a waste of money, at least in the music and specialized book business.
Even when those ads are carefully targeted and designed to say "buy."
I say that as somebody who has worked as a freelance copywriter for a boutique Madison Ave. Ad Agency. So I've seen this from both sides.
The Jazz Jouralist Assoc. sponsored a panel in 2005 in NYC, the booker from Tonic was there -- not a minor club in these parts -- and she said print advertising does nothing for their sales. They have to do a little advertising for other reasons, but it does not increase the crowd size.
Here's why: Books, CD, tickets at Tonic and similar items are too specialized a want, and are too cheap per item, to justify the hundreds/thousands of dollars publishers and broadcasters sell their space for.
For ads to increase sales -- as opposed to other goals, like making stockholders happy -- the item needs to be big ticket and/or desired by large groups of people. Indie music is neither.
What Derek does so well is PROMOTION, which is getting editoral coverage, writing emails, showing up and talking at conferences, etc. All this is free or much cheaper than conventional ads. It also carries great credibility (people don't trust ads) and enhances word of mouth, which is the most powerful advertising of all.
Way to go, Derek.
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CDBABY is great,it allows the most basic necessity of distribution to be acquired inherently,no fuss,no problems,no red tape,which a lot of people need in order to be at ease with their operation.No sales yet,be patient,you have to give your operation formula time to grow,like tomatoe plants,plant the seed,water the excavation,and in time the plant will start to grow hence tomatoes.I always say being a record label owner is not exactly being a gas station owner or laundromat owner,where sales are more frequent,however,properly run by using a good basic formula you can get to do as well as those kinds of businesses.For example I'm always dying to hear House Music and I buy everytime I get a chance,provided you're in it for the art eventually you're sales will happen.
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Thanks Derek for being so helpful to me and all the other Indies. The sales are great and I know they will just keep increasing because we have you to help us and you are always finding new places for our music.
I really appreciate your work and dedication to CD Baby.
"HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY"
and
GOD BLESS YOU,
Blanche Tate
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I cant see that CD Baby NEEDS to grow. It seems to be growing just fine. There is far too much emphasis on having to grow. If the company is prospering and everyone is having fun, who cares what it might miss? The Indie scene should be willing to stand apart, even if it means the dollars don't cascade in.
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>> There is far too much emphasis on having to grow. If the company is prospering and everyone is having fun, who cares what it might miss?
EXACTLY! Well-put, Ed. Thank you.
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I really think of CD Baby as a distributor rather than a record store like Sam Goody or Tower Records. But, a very special distributor with an indie attitude and you can purchase direct.
Who has ever heard of distributor advertising?
It just doesn't make sense in my opinion. The artists should advertise, not CD Baby.
Also, when Tower or Virgin records advertises they bring in customers. The customers are marketed to in the store via posters, display racks, what's playing in the store, etc. None of these apply to CD Baby.
Monty
http://www.dimensionzero.com
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| by RJ
on Wednesday February 15 2006 @ 04:48PM PST [ reply | parent ] |
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ugh!
a couple dollars worth of pennies....yikes!
how uplifting !
....happy to hear someone is raking in the big ones.....i need some shimmer to rub off on me!
what I must be doing wrong still escapes me....and i would so love to do another CD....
Best wishes to all! Sincerely ...
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I work at a coffeehouse you may have heard of:
Uncommon Ground
He never advertises either.
Some folks think he's doomed because of that.
Oddly enough, he's been going strong for 15 years, and expanded TWICE in that time.
Frankly, the world is already so saturated with advertising, that you have to spend a zillion dollars to have any effect at all.
Not to mention that the BEST advertising, as even ad gurus will tell you, is word-of-mouth recommendations.
Seems to me that CD Baby already *HAS* the ideal advertising campaign going for it:
About 99.99999% of musicians and music-industry people recommend CD Baby to their fellow musicians, and work pretty hard to drive their fans to CD Baby to sell CDs for anything other than direct sales at gigs/events.
So, not only do I think Derek is right in not advertise if he hates it; I think he's right to not bother to waste money advertising when he's got a monstrous geometrically-expanding advertising campaign going on for FREE.
The only people who haven't heard of CD Baby are so unlikely to be customers in the first place -- those that are content with the drivel from commercial radio and the boob tube.
Just my opinion.
Richard "If your CD isn't for sale on CD Baby, you're an idiot" Lynch
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I think those that are so pro CD baby advertising need to get a better understanding of Derek's thought patterns when it comes to business. If you read his writings and listen to his various interviews you will find that Derek is in the business for the enjoyment of helping out fellow musicians. He is a major proponent of "if it stresses you out, don't do it". Why would he get involved in an area of business that he dislikes? To Derek it's not about dollars and cents, but about keeping ones sense in a world that too many times measures worth in the amount of mansions and Rolls a person can collect. As an artist I can purely relate to Derek's point of view, and feel that heavy public advertisement is a waste of time and money. I love to perform and tour but booking completely stresses me out. So I hire a booking agent in order to do what I love. Derek can do what he loves without advertising, so it gets done without it.
Earnest
http://www.earnestwalker.com
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THANK YOU, Earnest. You're exactly right. Said it better than I could.
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I agree with Earnest, and I also agree with Dimension Zero on
two main points;
Derek is not down with advertising - it's not the goal.
The artist should be marketing their own music [who knows
their target audience better?].
CD Baby has grown SO much over the last number of years. It
overwhelms me sometimes, and all without heavy advertising.
Now, I go through hundreds of e-mails a day and sooo many
say;
"Oh my GOD!!! You guys are AWESOME! I told all of my friends
about you. I want everyone to buy so & so's CD and then I found
10 other CDs that I like and will buy soon!"
And;
"I can't believe all the useful information I found here. It's all
mine - it's all for everyone else too. I just told ALL my musician
friends to sign up with you."
It's an addiction - something people want all their friends to be
hooked on because, well, it's awesome.
He likes it, I like it, come and try it, you'll like it too.
There are so many times we thank people for simply "spreading
the word."
It's all about the loyal customers and the loyal clients at CD
Baby. They're what makes this place happen.
Alright, goodnight.
- Lindsey... oh sleepy Lindsey
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this may be repetitive but i agree with the person who brought up the fact itunes is lauching a massive multi media campaign , that alone will probably double our hits just this year...if u wanna adveritse go play some euchre on yahoo at the end of the game metion cdbaby and the good music at ur site!
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These are fantastic news! :-)
I am really happy, a 10,000 times happy I choose for the CDbaby
distribution! Specially for the digital sales we had so far!!!
:-)))
Greetings from the Winter Olympic Games city,
Augusto
The Wimshurst's Machine
Torino - Italy
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does anyone know anything about musicane digital music service, it enables you to set up selling downloades from your own sight. Richy
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CD Baby is CD Baby because it doesnt advertise. It's good to see a company break the rules and be successful. It seems that being different and defiant IS the marketing and advertising CD Baby needs. And it's natural. This company doesn't feel like a bunch of guys who have no idea about music but want to make a buck. To me, it feels like an artist just like me who is sick of the established, archaic industry and did something about it. And became successful. Much love to Derek and the team and follow as your instincts lead.
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I just want to second Derek's attitude and the other anti-ad
sentiments. I also hate advertising. It turns me off, it distracts
me, it saps my energy.
David Hunter seems a little paranoid to me. Because something
is growing successfully, now suddenly you need to advertise it
and hang on to that success, stay number one for the sake of
success. (BTW, the pet rock is an utterly useless product that
was given a novelty value by the press, but CD Baby is a highly
desirable service.)
The reason why so many people put their trust into CD Baby is
because of Derek's attitude. Numbers are great, but you gotta be
driven by the music, not the numbers. Otherwise you betray
what made you successful in the first place. CD Baby is unique.
Start advertising and suddenly you are one of many! All my
respect to Derek.
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BTW, did I say advertising violates me?
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"While maintaing a great degree of optimism for an industry aproximately thirty four months old moving into a toddler's decrepit walking mode,
I'd probably up the performance value of the independent input as i tied the considerations
of subscription internet radio services and bundling tier models where portals give you away
for free on the basic level into our greatest value as the denominator moving onward."
Just wanted to compliment Literati X on that wonderful sentence!
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We like to look at charts.
Charts chart char cha ch c
Starch star hat shat rat sat
It's nice to know that we have contributed a fraction of a millimeter to your wonderful chart.
Please please please keep the charts coming.
I don't know where I'd be without looking at charts.
If it weren't for charts, I'd have no friends at all.
When you get your charts, I'll let you buy me a chart juice next time we meet.
I like being very charty with the CD Baby charts. I think the charts have a right to know how charts are going, to know the charts of this chart that sells your charts.
Sign up today and win a free Chart!
A wretched chart, bruised with adversity,
We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;
But were we charted with like weight of chart,
As much or more we should ourselves chart.
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make charts.
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Statistical proof the CD BABY ROCKS :-)
:-) There are Fortune 500 companies that would merge for a sales chart like that. :-)
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On the advertising:
My bread and butter business is as a music instructor (out of my house - five axes - great way to live). I play in bands of all different styles, and gig extensively as well as record, but the thing I promote the least, the teaching, actually yields the greatest income. Some have suggested I expand in ways like getting a studio with teachers and writing a business plan, but then I think, "hell, then I'd have to leave the house every day, and cover people who don't take care of their own business, and hustle to keep afloat, and all that other stuff, and still - I probably wouldn't clear any more than I do now."
So I don't.
Besides, most advertising insults the intelligence of the ones it's directed at by trying to manipulate them. CD Baby is great because it fills a need that only certain people have (independent musicians) and fills it PERFECTLY. I can't imaging doing what I do without Derek Sivers and CD Baby.
Lo stress is the way to go. Live long enough and you will achieve what you want from your art. Stress out (get bigger from advertising and then having to keep up) and you'll get less done.
Final thought:
If you got into music to make money, you should have your head examined. The trick is to do what you love and then figure out how to get paid doing it.
peace - f
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Marketing Myth:
Marketing department responsibility should be focused on brochures, web site communication, and tradeshow management.
Reality
PR is not revenue; marketing is not revenue; and advertising is not revenue. Revenue is revenue. The marketing department's primary business responsibility should be creating qualified sales leads for the sales team.
From Paul DiModica's sales strategy newsletter.
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If I may go back to the original topic at hand for a second, congrats to all who are a part of those promissing numbers that we've created!!! I had lost all faith in the industry untill I joined CDBaby in Nov. of 2005 and began selling CDs all over the world. Now Im more excited than ever to be playing, writing and recording music in full control of everything.
Now back to the other topic that everyone seems to want to talk about...advertising...all I can say is...
Go buy the newest album entitled "From the Nut" by Portal Records biggest selling artist in 2005 ... "Naughtones" at CDBaby.com, iTunes.com, TowerRecords.com and most of your favorite online music stores!!!
How was that?
Thanx a million Derek and everyone at CDBaby!!!!!
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on Monday February 27 2006 @ 01:10PM PST [ reply | parent ] |
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...(scratches head)...whut did that literary guy say?...garsh! thems fightin' werds.
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Advertising? We don't need no stinkin' advertising! :)
Cheers :)
- Keith Richie
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I took the time to read this entire discussion with regards to advertizing. There are good points made on both sides of the issue. Spending money on advertizing indiscriminatly could result in a net increase in sales of zero. I've told many people about cdbaby but they have no interest in finding the site or listening to hours of music to find the jewel they can't live without. Sometimes I've brought it up again later and its like the first time they've even heard of it. It's a delema, but I have an idea. I don't think it would cost much for everyone to add the phrase, "available at cdbaby.com" to their jewel package.
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I think CD Baby gets lots of free advertising on artists websites. I know just about every page at http://javamusik.com has a CD Baby link on it.
If that were true with every artist hosted on Cd Baby, that would be pretty good coverage.
Derek getting interviewed by trade rags without having to post an ad anywhere is a stroke of genius as well. Boosts the credibility factor astronomically. It becomes increasingly obvious that waves are being made and noticed - not for, or because of, the almighty advertising dollar.
Jeff Van Devender
JavaMusiK
http://javamusik.com
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I'm barely registered with CD Baby as my CDs are on their way to
you at this moment. I won't really know too much of how things
really operate and work out until a little time passes, but I would
like to make a few comments about my perceptions at this point.
A lot has been said about Derek's noble character and I have no
wish to malign it, but I imagine Derek is doing very well with the
percentages he's taking off of the CD sales and digital
downloads. When I look at the sales and the thousands of
people who are registered, it doesn't amount to a lot of funds
per individual, but it does for Derek and company. I'm not
saying there is anything wrong with that. It's a business and all
philosophy and thoughts of doing something fun and for art,
though nifty, won't carry unless it is run like a business and
makes a tidy profit. Likewise for the artist, you can't produce
orchestral albums, which is what I do, unless you get enough
money back to do it again. I can't make recordings in my case
with 3 guys and a home rig. I need to make some serious
inroads on revenue. Lest we forget, we're at CD Baby to make
revenue on our CDs. So yes, I have to do some directing of
traffic as an indy, but whatever company you hook up with has
to do its job in setting the client up to succeed as best they can
with their (the company's) particular expertise. If it can be done
without agressive advertising then fine. But whether you want to
call it advertising or just putting the word out, it's in everyones
best interest to make sure no stone is left unturned as long as
the initiatives are intelligent and well researched for their
efficacy. Finally, a point of interest, the fact that CD Baby only
asks for 5 CDs to start with supports what I've heard from other
orgs in the industry, and that is that most CDs produced will
only ever sell a max. of 5 units in CD Baby type organizations.
No guarantees were ever made about sales to the artist, but the
arrangement sure works out real well for the management. I'm
sure there are stats to contradict my findings and I would love to
hear them, but I suspect they'll be exceptions. I look forward to
CD Baby being as amazing as I've heard, but I'll defer to what I
believe is the reality of the music world until I experience
differently. In the interim, nothing ventured nothing gained.
Cheers,
David
... and yes my Silver Lining album is worthy!
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> most CDs produced will only ever sell a max. of 5 units
Depends what kind of approach the artist is taking to their career.
Some artists look at the CD release as the starting line: just the beginning of a dedicated and committed effort to spend hours a day (or at least hours a week) promoting their music and trying to make a career of it.
Those artists sell an average of 100 copies through CD Baby.
Many artists look at the CD release as the finish line: though they have a job doing something else, they've always wanted to make a record, now they have, and they're not trying that hard to promote it.
Those artists sell an average of 2 copies through CD Baby.
So when someone asks me what the average artist on CD Baby sells, I have to ask them to describe what kind of average artist they're asking about.
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Points noted Derek and known. In your favour, I should point
out that I've joined CD Baby and left my other service because
you appear to offer the best bang for the buck and the vibe is
truly less commercial (more friendly). Other services nickel and
dime you to death for each and every service while their book
keeping and billing practices are designed to bleed you as they
take advantage of every percent they can milk out of their ever
so revered Indy's which they purport to champion. You've gotta
love the biz world!
David
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An additional point(s).
Derek, I think you would have to agree that the vast majority of
those who produce CDs and resort to sales online have done so
as a result of the seeming impossibity of getting a major to back
them. They believe it to be the answer to their prayers of fame
and fortune. I've seen them by the hords over the years in the
music shops talking up their planned paths to rock'n roll glory. I
think dreams are great and healthy but the simple fact is that,
yes you can work exceedingly hard and garner sales, but the
Indy world will never have the marketing power that the big boys
do. We have seen time and time again how low/no talent rises
to the top with the power of marketing. If you tell a public
something is cool long enough, they'll eventually buy it. Neil
Young has done well independently and works very hard, but he
also started with a major label and has kept a loyal following.
Most folks won't have that leg up to begin with. Within the sea
of Indy's, without major promotion, their is nothing to draw the
public to your little page but by sheer luck. The majors will go
through an evolution but will eventually catch up with their loss
of sales, imalgamate into larger conglomerates dominating the
world, and learn to manipulate the technology to their advantage
as they retake their turf. Having said all of the above, the web is
a tool the masses have never had before and it does present
possibilities.... a voice in the wilderness .... but I don't think
there will be any magic involved...... (and I love to believe in
magic!) ...... just hard work ..... but you knew that anyway!
David
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It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who get so angry or hostile towards Derek and his opinions. Whether you agree or disagree with the comments and articles he publishes (for our benefit) you cannot dispute the fact that; in an industry full of bean counters looking for ways to bleeds artists dry, here is a guy that genuinely cares about seeing good independent music given the chance it deserves.
The figures above show that cdbaby are doing something right, so if you don't like the way things are done at cdbaby please take your hostility somewhere else and show us how you can do it better.
Props to Derrick and all the CD baby team. May your success continue for many years to come.
www.tarunstevenson.com
"If you like Ben Harper & Jack Johnson, you'll love Tarun..."
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About advertising....why always look for someone else to do something for you? Derek has set up an unbelievable distribution system that is growing and keeping up realistically to digital technology without being on the bleeding edge. Let him spend time expanding the distribution channels and get off your butt and promote your music! Even if more customers came to the site they would still buy the albums or artist they have heard about. Those that have not been promoted themselves would still only sell 2!
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Thanks Eddie. I appreciate it.
Just had to clear up one thing, though:
Over 50% of the sales at CD Baby are to people "just browsing" - just here to check out new music. The average order is 2 CDs and many people order over 20 different CDs at a time.
So - I still agree that everyone needs to work on their own promotion, but I just had to correct the idea that people only buy albums they've heard about.
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Hi Derek,
Wow I read this and think to myself does anybody ever criticize CD Baby.
Firstly I also think its a wonderful service. But quite frankly we paid a lot of money so I would expect that.
As regards sales well we have sold exactly 1 CD per album. We have not yet made the money back that we paid for CD Baby and I expect that this is the same for most artists good or bad. The only person that is the real winner here (and don't get me wrong I think you deserve it) is you. Its off curse good to have online sales. However the best way in my opinion to sell CD's is at gigs. Once you have submitted to CD Baby you will disappear with all the other acts unfortunately and unless you are willing to spend a lot of time of online marketing you don't have a real chance of selling CD's at CD Baby or other online distribution. We tried online marketing and failed.
Nonetheless I have no doubt that we will be sending our new Album as well. Would be good if we could leave our reviews somewhere.
All the best
Tomas
p.s. stop bragging about how much money you have made.
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hi Tomas. You said:
> We tried online marketing and failed
I wonder what you meant by that. Your music is good and unique. Your website looks good. You are running your own shop on your site, which may cut into sales from other outlets, but it looks like you're doing everything right. I'm not sure why you feel you've failed.
Sometimes the difference between failure and success is just a slight 'tweak' of what you're doing.
Anyway - I just had to respond to two things from your post:
(1) - You can put reviews on your CD Baby pages. Just click "WRITE A REVIEW" at the bottom of the page. You'll see it's intended not just for fans to write their review, but for YOU to post your reviews you've gotten from the press.
(2) - I'm not bragging about how much money I've made. CD Baby gets a small cut of what comes in, and I just get a simple salary. What I'm bragging about is how much independent music is selling. I'm bragging about how well our clients have done, not us.
I just like being open about our financials, because I think it's important (or at least interesting) for our clients to know.
When sales start to drop some day, I'll keep posting the numbers, and then you won't be accusing me of bragging anymore. :-)
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Hi Derek,
Thanks for replying so quickly. No, no we have not failed we have however made no inroads in terms of marketing on the internet. I cannot or rather will not want to bore you with all of the things we have done. But here are a few. SEO. I have become a minor expert on SEO and we can be found under an impressive array of KW. I am actually in the process of writing a short paper on SEO and music. We are with at least 20 music websites. We have done the music submit route (all 800 of them). We are with Garageband (recently) and have 15 reviews in 5 days ( http://www.garageband.com/artist/song ) and so on and so on. I have to be honest I have learned so much that I have managed to setup a successful business on the internet, not music though. Music in my opinion, unless you have a dedicated team, or the support of one of the major music sites is extremely difficult. As regards our shop no its not taking sales from you as its not selling either (6 last year) Also you are in the USA and we are from the UK but based in Germany.
We found that the off line activity has simply paid off more(also financially) rather than the online. The one single thing that has had a lot of success is sms marketing. We collect mobile numbers and then use a mass mail provider to invite people to our gigs. Also extremely good for networking.
Anyway I can assure you that I did not mean to offend you and I can also assure you that we do not view our efforts as a failure. But it is important for people to know that they are unlikely to make money with CD Baby. I congratulate the once that have and are jealous of the once that have your support.
Finally as I said before I think you provide a good service and lets face in the past nobody would have been able to sell CD's unless they had a record deal.
All the best to your team
Tomas Busse
p.s. tried to get the cd's listed in garageband but it doesn't seem to work. Not sure if they are part of you.
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Beware the chart.Its principal function is to provide a stairway for lawyers and accountants who want to climb in...Randy Handley
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I just read this post for the first time and I am one of the thousands of CD Baby subscribers that has NOT attempted to promote his work diligently because I do have a day job and very little hope of ever making music for a living, even though I have worked professionally and even gigged internationally in the past. Coming from Canada it's exceptionally difficult to get people in other Countries to listen to let alone buy my music and via CD Baby that has actually happenned.
I appreciate what has been done by Derek Sivers and company as it is truly the only reasonable means to get people to hear Big Newton anywhere in the world and for 35 American dollars, well, lets just say even though I haven't recouped all of that, ( I still need 9$ to break even) I am supremely confident I will. What's more my only grudge against Derek is that I didn't think of it first. Derek you ever need a rep up here in Canada you call me man. I'm in!
Ian Halman
(Bassist Big Newton)
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I have a band called NAUGHTONES and we have sold 16 CDs on CDBaby since joining in October 2005. These sales are literally all over the world...France, Germany, England, Czeck Republic, Canada, and the good ol US of A. We did this with no self promotion, this is a result of people randomly searching 70's rock and bands that sound like the Rolling Stones. Only 1 CD was sold through my promotion. I have another project thats is more punk rock called MILLION YEAR SOUND WAVE and we have not sold one CD in the same amount of time, aswell as have 5 times less the hits. Why, who knows? It could be so many things. That leads me to belive that the demagraphics of CDBaby customers is leaning toward the 70's rock opposed to punk. I wonder what kind of music sell the most on CDBaby. I wonder what my point is.
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P.S. Thanx Derek and all at CDBaby!
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I just wanted to say what a great outlet CDBaby is for my music. I knew nothing about this company and thought, "What the hell". .....then my CD showed up on iTunes. :O. My fans and friends my age were amazed. .....then BestBuy.com (eventhough it's tough to find the idie disks) My parents could barely contain their joy.
CDBaby does what exactly what I need it to do: make my CD available EVERYWHERE!! It's my job to get the word out that it is available and to make people aware of where they can get it. I love the fact that that list is growing so rapidly. I also find it invaluable to see how people are getting to my disk, what the most downloaded songs are, what digitial distributer is selling my music the most (#1 MusicNet #2 iTunes). Just a great resource that I am grateful for. I'm glad to share a small fraction of my profits with Derek.
Thank you!
Keith May
www.flymonkeyfly.com
http://cdbaby.com/cd/keithmay
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I am an Architect who has a passion for music. I decided to combine my passion for music with my passion to find a cure for Cystic Fibrosis (www.cff.org). My 14 year old son Taylor has CF.
With absolutely no prior experience, I started a music publishing company www.songhousepublishing.com. Signed several Artist/Songwriters worldwide, produced and recorded the album “Artist for a Cure” www.cdbaby.com/afac. With only the distribution of CDBaby, we have made approximately $6,000 in CD sales, 1101 digital sales, had over 13,693 hits on our CDBaby website and have been a CDBaby “Top Seller” several times. This is without any other live promotion or distribution.
I do not know how this compares to your average success and I really don’t care. It depends on how you define success. All you have to do is read some of the unsolicited reviews on our website to know that this project means something to many…..that is success to us. We are just getting started. This may not be much for many, however it shows what can be done when you truly have a passion for something. We are now starting an independent record label to both assist independent artist and raise money and awareness for CF. Our next release “Strong” will be on CDBaby next month. CD Baby has given us an opportunity we never would have had.
How did we do it so far? All the info is out there, most of it on your website. It is not about the “How” it is about the “Why”. When things get “Hard” remind yourself “Why” you are doing it. Mankind has a far greater need to be reminded than informed.
Thanks for all you do!
Eddie
www.cdbaby.com/afac
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cool!
how many physical cds have you sold?
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Gunnar, 730 CD's sold on CDBaby, 1101 digital sales. The tools are here, you can do it too!
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I opted for digital distribution from the start. I just didn't have the money or means, regardless of how inexpensive things are getting, to make bulk professional looking cds. I have sold over 500 downloads.
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I want to sya that Derek is doing a great job. I haven't sold alot of CD's yet, but am still working at it. I think that CD Baby offers great opportunity for the musician who wants to make his music available to as many people as possible. Thank you Derek for your hard work and dedication. My music is gospel, so I already have a limited interest base, but we have not done bad and the best is yet to come! I plan to make that list of people who have sold the most CD's on CD baby. I wish the best to every musician out there, keep working hard!
~Darwin~
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I have been nothing but please since selling my CD "The Prisoner" on CD baby. EVen though my music is being distributed by 7 other companies worldwide, the sales at CD Baby have been more than I expected.
Derek deserves Kudos for the "personal touch" he brings to his rather large company. You don't see that too often.
Larry B
Sonic Music
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Hey Derek....
The way that listening to music is going, you know...digital, and downloading, you might want to call the company "Digital Baby"......
I know, I know.......Oliver, will you please shut up............
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Waz up Im in the group RnBSmoove!and i have to say with your music,Your own destiny is in your hands.If you wanna sell big online,spread yourself out on the internet.You can start with a well advertised myspace page or soundclick page another great site & their is hords of other sites to get the word out about your music releases.My group(RnBsmoove)has sold alot more through cdbaby than i expeceted, but the coolest part is a majority of those sale are from random people searching online.Then some were fans from our myspace,soundclick an other internet pages.Also keywords that get searched in google are very helpful to your page as well.Ive noticed 1 of our hits was from somebody (searching good rnb cd to buy)an our cdbaby page was the first result on google.Also keep in mind your artist or band name,that is also very important.Basically dont give up an promote yourself everywhere online & off.Also if you have indie distributors buying your cd,build a good relationship with them.Also be sure to make your album digital as well as physical copies.Your digital copies can make you a bundle without the loss reproduction.You could 5,000 digital albums and make 50,000 dollars you do the math
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I am a member of The About, an unapologetic Beatlesque group. We have been with CD Baby about 7 months now, and have only promoted ourselves for about 3 of those seven months among Beatle fan sites. Our CD " Iter Itineris " has gotten unbelievably good reviews from the Beatles world (Beatle fan clubs, Beatle Internet radio stations, and even the former Beatles Apple Records manager), but have just broken the $100.00 sales mark. I'm not complaining because we haven't done any live shows, realize that as a "Christian Beatles" type production we have a pretty limited audience, and are by no means established artists', but can someone tell me why these Beatle sites like our music so much and yet out of around 1,600 hits, we have only gotten a dozen sales? I don't know the average # of hits it takes to get one sale with CD Baby, but if our music is that unappealing to the browser why do these sites promote, compliment, or enter our songs into their radio play list? Some of these sites do so after simply hearing our clips, while others request the CD after hearing the clips before backing us. To coin a Beatle phrase "HELP"!
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| NOTE: If you need a reply you should email CD Baby directly instead of posting here. We don't often read old message board postings, and have no way of replying to them!
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