| CD Baby DIY Musician Podcast |
 Dec. 14,
2008
Ep.41 : What's Your Story?
|
|
|
 |
|
  |
| CD Baby artist shares his nightmares with The Orchard |
|
 |
|
| posted by Bob Gentry on Sunday January 18 2004 @ 03:46PM PST |
|
|
|
|
A QUICK EMAIL TO CDBABY: hi guys...1st off, I'd like to say how much i LOVE being with CDBABY. >You guys have been FANTASTIC for selling the "Bob Gentry" CD i have listed >with you. > >I'd like to list more CDs for sale with you guys and get them signed up >for digital distribution but at the moment I've having the biggest >struggle with a shitty company called The Orchard. > >They LOST 106 units of a CD titled "Moisture" (my old band) and are >refusing to pay me. I asked them over the last few years to de-list me and >I've even stopped sending them requested units over 2 years ago. I'm >attaching the last few emails I've had back and fourth with them for your >amusement. >But before i cut and paste...feel free to pass this email on to whoever >you like >thanks again for being here! >Bob Gentry > www.bobgentry.com ------------------------------------------------ part 1 (to the Orchard): I just noticed that the CD "Moisture" is now on iTunes.com
i never gave anyone permission to put it there. please have the Moisture "Moisture" CD removed from these places like itunes! I don't recall the contract i signed years ago saying anything about digital distribution! I told you people a year ago to REMOVE my product from your company. you still owe me $1000.00 from sales that you say were lost when Valley Media went under.
I'd like to hear back from you with this matter resolved Thank you! Bob Gentry ----------------------------------------------------- Part 2: > > Hello Bob, > > > > I looked into your account and the agreement you signed with us. It > > does indeed include digital distribution and if you would like me to > > fax you a copy I would be happy to. I also looked into your sales and > > it is likely that you lost some units in Valley Media which is very > > unfortunate. I see you sent us a total of 161 units since you joined > > with us and we also paid you a check of $383 which accounts for 55 > > units. This leave 106 outstanding and with 1 unit in stock and sales > > continuing this number may drop as well. I am truly sorry about Valley > > > Media but we did as much as we could to try to get either the product > > returned or some sort of compensation for them but were successful. > > Many of our artist lost something with them and we lost near one > > million dollars which almost put us out of business. > > > > Please let me know your thoughts on this and we can straighten it all > > out. > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Jim Myer > > > > The "New" Orchard > > 133 5th Ave. 7th FL. > > New York, NY 10003 > > 212-529-9109 ext. 32 > > Fax - 212-253-7614 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 3: > > Hi Jim, > > 1st off, I'd like to be paid for the 106 units. I don't care about > > Valley Media going under...my contract was with The Orchard. Also, > > last year i had asked to be removed from the Orchard's listing because > > > I'm now going through a different distribution company. My contract > > does not say anything about digital distribution and even if it was > > snuck in there, i asked for the contract to be terminated. I've > > STOPPED sending you guys CDs long ago due to been screwed by your > > company. What must i do to get my product de-listed and to be paid for > > > what you guys owe me? Bob Gentry > > > > PS...i believe you updated the contract...please send me a copy of the > > > contract i signed..thanks. --------------------------------------------------- part 4: > > Hi Bob, > > > > I am sorry but we can not pay you for those units lost. This is a > > clause that was also in our agreement as well. It is very unfortunate > > and I can assure you it will not happen again. I understand that your > > agreement was with us but another portion of the agreement is that > > since you have an agreement with us it pertains to us as well as any > > partners we work with. I do have the exact agreement you signed with > > us on 1-23-01 and the second paragraph explains that you assign the > > non-exclusive digital rights to us. > > > > You may have requested a deletion from us but I have no record of that > > > in writing. Otherwise we would have settled it when we received it. > > > > As you know as well that we went some tough time following Valley > > Media but we have restructured from then and are bigger and stronger > > then ever. I would like to encourage you to check out our site more > > and the news link and see everything that has happened over the last > > 6-9 months. I believe you will benefit very well by staying with us > > and make this business relationship work. > > > > I can fax or mail you a copy if you would like so just supply we with > > the info. > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Jim Myer > > > > The "New" Orchard ------------------------------------------------ Part 5: > Hi Jim, > Yes,...please mail me a copy of the contract i signed to: > Bob Gentry > XXXX XXXXX XXX > Hollywood, Ca > 90046 > > Also please remove me from you listings...do i need to write this out on > paper > so you have it in writting as well? This is the 2nd time i've asked and > i > refuse to send more CDs. I'm still speaking with an lawyer to see about > geting > paid for the 106 units as well. > Thanks > Bob Gentry. --------------------------------------------------------- Part 6: > Hi Bob, > > I will have this mailed out today and I will highlight the areas in the > agreement that I spoke of. I am also sorry about the units lost but > there is nothing that can be done about it. Many artist have tried but > it is also in our agreement that we are not responsible for lost units > and damages. I will also highlight this for you as well. To delete the > agreement I would need it in a letter sent to us. Then it would go under > review and a decision is made. I would like you to stay in for digital > because this is a totally different ball game. You are currently up on > all the digital service with no work needed to be done by you. If you > delete this title you may have a very tough time getting these track > available on these service. > > Thanks, > > Jim Myer > > The "New" Orchard -------------------------------------------- Part 7: The LAST EMAIL I SENT SO FAR
Ok Jim, I look forward to getting the contract that i signed to hand over to my lawyer. I'll also send a signed letter out ASAP to have the Moisture CD de-listed and out of your system. There should be no "reviewing" about this...it should just be removed. I do not want to be in for "digital" with your company and I will not have a tough time getting it put back in the system with another company.Worse case scenario; I release a "complete Moisture CD" with both CD's tracks and extra tracks included to be downloaded. Threatening me by saying "stick with us or you won't be able to get stay in digital distribution" is a crock!
I also understand that you're just a guy who has come in to clean up someone else's mess and I'm sorry for that. When I read in the contract about "not being responsible for lost CDs" I imagined perhaps 10 to 20 might get lost in a shuffle...but 106 NEVER CROSSED my mind. For your contract to state that it's NON-EXCLUSIVE DISTRIBUTION and then to find out that I'm not able to distribute digitally through other companies because you already have it listed...well to me, that means EXCLUSIVE.
Basically, I just want to wash my hands of your company, get paid for what you guys owe me and move on. I've also been asking around to other people who've used The Orchard and have been hearing horror stories like mine. I have some interviews coming up in the next few weeks for national magazines, I won't have anything nice to say about your company. Through my eyes and what I've heard from MANY others, The Orchard takes advantage of the little guys who either don't fight back or can't. I will. Thanks Bob Gentry
PS. I'm all the past emails that we've had and I've saved, when I asked to be removed from your system over a year ago, why did you not tell me that I needed to mail in a hand written request? -------------------------------------------------
Please pass this warning on to as many musicians even thinking about signing up with The Orchard.
Check out Bob Gentry's self-titled CD on CD Baby at http://www.cdbaby.com/bobgentry
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm a classical violinist shortly to be releasing CD through the orchard in the coming months.
Obviously, Theorchard doesn't have the godlike management of Derek's CD Baby. It seems really, really unfortunate that you've lost such a large amount of stock, and you're quite right to be angry. At the same time, they evidentally are really sorry that this happened, and - like you - I don't suppose that they envisaged such a large loss of product in that business collapse when they wrote the contract. But as that's still covered by the contract, then sure, there's probably little you can do.
You've obviously been burned, and I don't blame you for getting out, but I have hope that they are improving rapidly. As you probably know, they've completely changed the whole website and online setup, to coincide with the new management team. I've had nothing but good service from them so far, and hope to release a disc using their on-demand service coming later in the spring. At the risk of blaspheming against CD baby, they do seem to have an even greater distribution catchment at time of writing, and of course still offer the e-store registration advantages that no other company has at the moment. Of course, any company of this sort is going to have teething trouble, particularly at such a pivotal time in the industry (unless it's run by a team of derek siverses, which is unlikely ;-) ). Of course, it's really sad when the little people are affected, and you have my deepest sympathy.
Financially, and bearing in mind the orchard's legendarily slow payment schedule, I'm taking the fairly sanguine approach that I'll make my money touring, and if the recordings break even then that's a bonus. But I'm still going to give the orchard a second chance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"It seems really, really unfortunate that you've lost such a large amount of stock, and you're quite right to be angry. At the same time, they evidentally are really sorry that this happened"
Well, they don't seem to be too sorry since they haven't paid me the money owed. Nor do they intend to.
I wish you the best of luck with them. I've received quite a bit of email from other people who are having the same trouble i've had.
My lawyer is still waiting for these idiots to send a copy of the contract i signed. I DO feel bad for the guy left to clean up the mess of their company....but what's so hard about paying me what they owe me? They DO have the money since they scammed so many other artist. At least from my eyes.
You'll see.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well i suppose we should all do our homework really before we send our works out to these places.
With my labels being in their infancy, i only sent five CD`s to them, although i have spent a certain amount getting them to the USA fron the UK.
I'm more angry that i have sent a clients work off to the Orchard, i feel i'm letting him down, so i'm gonna hang fire for a while and see if anything becomes of this shambles of a company.
There should be some sort of government body that checks these places out, and if they prove to be taking advantage of the musicians who have spent 18 months or so working on their music, so they can hopefully creat a career out of doing something they love, then some kind of pay-back should be sorted.
If any of the hierarchy at the Orchard reads this, then as we in the UK say,"C`mon lads, play cricket".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Doesn't it bother anyone else that this guy from The Orchard is sending out such gramatically poor email? I mean, honestly! "I believe you will benefit very well"? "with no work needed to be done by you."? "getting these track available on these service."? It doesn't instill much confidence in me to see that the "new" Orchard is apparently also using some "new" rules of language.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
hahahahah...your post is almost worth the pain of having to deal with these people. Thanks for the smile ;-)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You're story about the Orchard is painful. Mine is so similiar. I finally just gave up on trying to contact them- what a nightmare!! Thanks to cdbaby for being so on top of stuff!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
sorry to hear they burned you as well.
Thinking back, my band at that time was going to on a national TV on the USA network and MUCH music TV (farmclub..they're not around anymore).
This is when i 1st signed up with the Orchard...we figured we needed something fast to get the CD on to places where people could buy it. The air date of the show was March 2nd...it took over 4 months before the CD actually showed up at places like amazon, cdnow, etc...they missed the window on that.
I called them a 6 times 2 months before the show's air date saying "hey my band's going to be on TV ...is there any way you can get the CD listed quicker"...
It wasn't...hell....the Farmclub show even went into reruns and our show was lucky enough to get played again....was the CD posted???
i'll let you guess the answer to that.
luckily, we were smart enough to keep a mailing list ;-)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for the info on the Orchard. They've been wanting us to use their service...glad I stayed with CDBaby!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The Orchard ripped me off as well. My web site has excerpts from the contact weasel (JIm Myer) and links to governmental agencies in New York that might enjoy hearing about your The Orchard experience.
http://www.mindspring.com/~emit/theorchard.htm
David
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CD Street pulled the same SCAM they didn't pay us for
a years worth of sells from multiple bands and claimed
the the company had been sold to a new owner. What
BS someone should do something about these
companies doing BAD BUSINESS.
-another artist that got ripped off.
PS STAY AWAY FROM 101 DISTRIBUTION! Another
SCAM!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
oh damn.. and i was just about to sign up with cdstreet....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hello,
I'm looking for information about how CDBaby members have
gotten OFF the Orchard. I want to use CDBaby for digital
distribution and am having the same problem being released
from their "non-exclusive" contract that other people are. Please
e-mail me directly at roxanne@roxannebeck.com
Thanks!
Roxanne
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
yes IVe been ripped of too..Im another musician who hasent seen a dime from the orchard....you think I would have at least gotten a check for a dollar or something after 18 months and over 80 cds cent.....
also...Ive noticed that on Amazon...you can buy my CD used...I believe they got them from orchard...I suspect...maybe thats the cutouts some one was talking about in a previous posting..
in any event I think we should file a class action lawsuit...its obvious there not on the up and up..
Derek is just being a nice guy ( and thats no surprise because he really is genuine...geess...just look at CD baby...it exudes authenticity), when he says they do have a building and they really are real...
I think you could say..the they are REALly good at taking peoples money and ripping them off!
MOTIF
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I hate to just chime in with a "me-too" but The Orchard does
seem to be a sort of Hotel California, where indie artists can
check in, but they can never check out. I have a string of emails
that I sent requesting to be taken out of their distribution
system and the only answer that I got was someone who said
she'd send it on to their legal department. When six months or
so had gone by and I heard nothing from them, I sent her
another email, and received no answer at all. I hope that Elliot
Spitzer or the Better Business Bureau of NY shuts them down for
good. If anyone has any suggestions on how to escape The
Orchard, please feel free to email me!
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
| NOTE: If you need a reply you should email CD Baby directly instead of posting here. We don't often read old message board postings, and have no way of replying to them!
|
|
|
|
|
